I also thought your posts were right on the money too.
Funny, I was bored last night and came across an old thread from 2003 which CeMar posted to quite a lot. Nothing much has changed. He was practically saying that his wife lied to him about being HD and tricked him into marriage! Get a grip CeMar. Do you honestly think that your wife decided that she was going to turn off sex for you once the ring was on her finger? You have no idea what goes on with a woman's mind and body after childbirth. You aren't the same person you were before the child/ren came along. You never will be. The woman is a mother and the man is a father. That's how it will be for the rest of your lives. I really do understand how hurt you are, I can feel it when I read your posts but your perspective on M needs to change to accommodate this. Nothing else has worked so far. Stop sulking about what you used to have and start making changes to bring about what you could have. It might even turn your W on!
Sorry if I came across harsh, but reading those old posts put me in butt kicking mode!
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
I can understand NOT BEING IN THE MOOD, but maybe if one allowed themselves to be seduced with gentle caresses, instead of biting the poor man's head off something great would happen for BOTH partners.
Sometimes, I think women are very selfish when it comes to issues of intimacy, wanting it to be ALL ABOUT THEM, and if they are not in the mood, well too bad. That in my mind is not a partnership, not about finding a middle ground.
Today is what counts, so make the most of what you have, rather than regret what might have been.
Hap Just let go of the need to have sex, let it float away from you. I hope you don't intend this advice for HDH's in general. Letting it "float away" is not a possibility without some other consequences that would be detrimental to the M or myself.
I will also keep in mind that a SSH that has duty sex with his W should be somewhat appreciative, considering her LD frame of mind.
I think it is really easy to see how a W who does not have the insight I have spent a lot of time and trouble in getting to would not have been able to react this way, would have shrugged H off, would have ended up with him feeling PO’d and more grabby more needy. I take that to mean you realise your or your H's needs will be different and that you can have enough empathy for him to be somewhat flexible in your LM activities. WTG.
How do I know this, because I freed myself of the need to protect myself from H’s advances That sounds good if I read it as you don't need to feel bad if your H makes an sexual advance. like in I was able (and it was a struggle) to get past the lack of desire and do it for H.
If W offers “duty sex” take it and be glad, truly glad, show her the affection you feel, make her feel like she has done a good thing not something second best. Reward her efforts Hap, how about if I do this? "If W offers “duty sex” take it and be glad, show her the affection you feel, make her feel like she has done a good thing, and reward her efforts."
There is a psychological concept that works well with low IQ kids. It states if you "over reward/praise" someone, they eventually try less and less and some give up.
I am not criticizing you or advising Cemar to do anything in particular, although would suggest he acknowledge and appreciate or reward his W for making some effort in maintaining at least a minimum SL.
reward the good and she will strive harder not less. That is the way it is "supposed to work" but not the way it always works.
I think some people lose their SD. That is the way it is. And some of those people that lose their SD, don't have much empathy for the sex starved spouse (SSS), then the SSS shows less interest in the LDS and there is the downward spiral.
Some LDS's have a certain amount of empathy for the higher drive spouse and have something like duty sex. Maybe that is all "they feel" they can do.
And of course there are spouses that know the DHS won't stick around if there is no sex in the R or like sparkless said (when I feel that H is going to lose the plot soon)
Sparkless It took me a long time to come to terms with the 'he isn't the holding hands while walking down the street type of guy' and I never tried to make him something he wasn't. Sparkless, true you cant "make anyone" but you can tell them and "sort of" train them to do some things your way.
Sex was OK, but I never O'd much. Did you want to "O"? If you had it to do over again would "O'ing" more often, influenced you to like sex more so it was not "duty sex"?
I know SAHM's need nore than what happens in the bedroom to feel connectet to their H's. I know daily activites and being/feeling like part of a team is important.
I was thinking about what a W could say, so her H would consider her needs more. I came up with an idea or line that goes like this.
H, I see you really get excited when we ML. You know it takes me longer than you and I am envious of your excitement. I want that too! I feel so good when it happens and somewhat lost when it does not happen for me. I realise "O'ing" gives me a "fix" in addition to feeling real good when it happens. Can you do A B C so I can get my "fix" the next time (day or two) when we ML?
One reason I use the word "fix" is that is what I feel. If I go a long time w/o sex and just MB, I don't get a good "fix" that relaxes me for a day or two.
Ladies, don't laugh. It (fix) is more than in my head. My blood pressure (BP) goes up with stress (normal) and down when relaxed (normal again). After some fair to good sex, my BP drops 5 to 10 points. After some duty sex, IE. "yes you can have it if you make it fast", my BP goes up. Why, because of the resentment that sex is dolled out like it was shortening someones life.
I am not talking about ignoring BB all day then jumping her at 9:45 PM, doing it for 10 minuets then getting off and going to sleep.
Now I just have to work out how to enjoy sex again.
What about stating what you need, how your body and mind works?
I read a book once, I think it was called "Our Bodies something," most likely 'Our Bodies, Ourselves' a long time ago. It was for teen aged girls but I think guys can benefit from reading the book? Why, because some guys don't know what women deal with everyday.
Anyway, for me it cleared up some false impressions I had. Reinforced that women and men do some things differently and most of all, females have extra tasks (physical and mental) that they have to or want to do. IE, sometimes it is nor easy being a female. Think of a book that a guy would consider the user's guide and service manual to females.
At the time I read the book, I was a mechanic and read lots of service/repair manuals. FWIW.
Just some thoughts Sparkless. Wish I could help guys understand their W and relationships more.
StarvingDragon I read your other posts and your first post describing your SSM. I think your first post is better than the post on this thread. How about lightening up or explaining in detail, why you feel like you do.
I sort of agree with you I think women are very selfish when it comes to issues of intimacy,.....and if they are not in the mood, well too bad. This applies some times.
I left this out wanting it to be ALL ABOUT THEM, Sometimes that is true, and sometimes that is not true.
So how can we help you help yourself?
My first suggestion is to copy your introduction post to this forum and start your own thread. I see so many reasons for you to be here.
What books have you read so we can use common terms and talk about similar concepts.
Have you two been to counseling? When did the R change. What do you believe about your W's medical conditions? Do you think they really place her in a state where sex should be avoided? What about hand jobs or oral sex, what are your beliefs or opinions?
I agree with you on the porn and MBing (another forum). A person with a sex drive and not much of a chance to ML needs something.
Sorry your life is what it is, but welcome to the forum.
Quote: Did you want to "O"? If you had it to do over again would "O'ing" more often, influenced you to like sex more so it was not "duty sex"?
To tell you the truth Lou, O'ing mostly isn't worth the trouble it takes to get there. Then you have to clean up afterwards. I would love to be my H for a day and feel what he does during sex. Must be fantastic because he keeps wanting to do it! At the moment the only benefit for me in having sex with my H is that it keeps him in a good mood. When he 'loses the plot', he screams, yells, throws things and puts holes in the wall with his hands and the latest incident was with his head. He does this when he feels all other forms of communication have failed. Anyway, that is a whole other story!
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Sparkless To tell you the truth Lou, O'ing mostly isn't worth the trouble it takes to get there I heard this from women on a couple of TV programs and have been the one to try to help my W, BB reach the peak, so she could slide over the edge. She said getting there was work, even though she considered herself somewhat HD at the time (1981). No interest in "O's" since.
Then you have to clean up afterwards Normal clean-up or female squirting type of cleanup, in that case a plastic sheet and 2 thick towels do the trick. I heard this on a TV program. I have no personal experience in this area.
I would love to be my H for a day and feel what he does during sex. Sparkless, if I could swap experiences with BB for a month or more, I would do what I could to help her. There have been so many times I wish she could feel the excitement I feel during ML/sex. I was thinking about posting details, but thought it might not be appropriate at this time. Too much about me and not enough about you or maybe not helpful to you.
All I can say is having good sex and making it a two-way street is better and more exciting than anything else I do. Would I give up food and sleep? No. But a good make-out/ML session is the most fun and pleasurable excitement I have ever had. Does that mean that I don't get nervous or am never reluctant to have sex> No, sometimes it is tricky when considering BB's response. Will she go for it? Am I being a pest and so on?
At the moment the only benefit for me in having sex with my H is that it keeps him in a good mood. Me too.
Lack of sex (from his POV) I assume? When he 'loses the plot', he screams, yells, throws things and puts holes in the wall with his hands and the latest incident was with his head. ....... that is a whole other story! OUCH and sorry to hear it gets that bad. Not every guy is like that. Back to the idea of what is acceptable or out of line. (anger management counseling?)
Do you sense he feels like it (sex) is never going to happen and he thinks he has to ramp-up his efforts in a negative, 'desperation' way for you to agree to sex or do you think it is mostly a 'power play' like he is going to 'win at all costs'?
No matter why, its still tough for both of you and holes in the walls are not acceptable.
Do you think he would read any books to help both of you?
Lou
I have to look up that big hydro-electric dam project in your country again. I read about it about a year ago. It took me a couple of nights, Googeling it.
Ok, I just found this and HAD to post it here, and this seemed as good a place as any. (If anything all of us in this thread could certainly use the humor!)
There is a tremendous amount of reality to my wife's issues regarding medical problems...in fact, therein is a bit of the problem. She's NOT just making excuses, not just putting off being intimate with me. There have been times when we have tried, and the obvious pain she's in at the time makes it obvious that it (sexual intimacy) is not going to work for either of us.
As to other alternatives, BJ's or hand jobs...maybe it's just me, but those at best are very poor seconds, ranking right up there with sympathy/duty sex, it's like giving a starving man an appetizer and telling him to make a meal out of it.
As to avoiding sex because of her medical issues...I think a great deal of the time, that her medical issues make having intimacy puts her through more than is fair to expect of her, but none the less does not mitigate my own very real needs....so, a two edge sword, and unfortunately it never seems to cut in my favor.
Porn...I associate it right up there with everything else in life...done in moderation, it's fine, but if one is over indulgent with it, it can be addiction.
Starving Dragon
PS...thanks for the welcome.
Today is what counts, so make the most of what you have, rather than regret what might have been.
Quote: Do you sense he feels like it (sex) is never going to happen and he thinks he has to ramp-up his efforts in a negative, 'desperation' way for you to agree to sex or do you think it is mostly a 'power play' like he is going to 'win at all costs'?
I do think it comes from desperation Lou, he thinks that it is the only way that I will pay attention to the matter. What he does not realise is that every time I see a patched hole in the wall or a broken object it is a reminder of his anger. It makes it that much harder to think loving thoughts.
I bought The SSM and Passionate Marriage. I have read both more than once. H has not even gotten halfway through SSM. Makes me wonder about how much he really wants to change things. Personally I am sick of the same old arguments and the vicious circle that ensues, I have often come close to just packing it in. It pisses me off that I carry all the blame for the way things are and that H is trying to get back his past instead of working out a better future.
Quote: I have to look up that big hydro-electric dam project in your country again. I read about it about a year ago. It took me a couple of nights, Googeling it.
You mean the Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme? My Grandfather worked on that one when it was being developed.
Anyway, where did CeMar go?
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
StarvingD She's NOT just making excuses, not just putting off being intimate with me. There have been times when we have tried, and the obvious pain she's in at the time makes it obvious that it (sexual intimacy) is not going to work for either of us. I hear you on those items. My W which I refer to as BB, has some aging medical problems too. sometimes when she is somewhat pissed, the physical part is not easy. Too tight, too dry and I hate like heck to put her through more uncomfortable activities. When she is feeling connected IC is not too bad. We starting using lube a couple of years ago but she kind of need more than lube now. So far Astroglide has worked the best.
As to other alternatives, BJ's or hand jobs...maybe it's just me, but those at best are very poor seconds,............. I understand, sort of like stale bread, but isn't stale bread better than no bread? A HJ with some hot kissing and both of us making out, is somewhat satisfying. In my case, it is me doing most of the making out.
Here are a few words from the book Have you ever had a romance that began with enormous potential and suddenly fizzled for no good reason not long after sex entered the equation? Or have you found that over time your libido, or your partner’s, declined radically, leaving you both anxious, irritable, and susceptible to infidelity? Quite understandably, these changes cause intense emotional misery.
Lillieperl is also reading the book and has made a few comments.
a two edge sword, and unfortunately it never seems to cut in my favor. Like I said before, we cant fix your spouse unless they want to change. sometimes both spouses post on the forum. Any chance of that happening?
