Just had another thought; lately it's been suggested as a possibility in my situation.
What if she is having an affair, whether emotional or physical? What would I do with this information (if it's the case)? What if I get caught while performing my "detective work" (I can't afford a real PI)?
The latter, I imagine, would have an immediate negative result; snooping around, following, etc., if I'm spotted I'm finished.
How would, and could, I deal with the truth if an affair is occurring; would it be a "deal breaker"?
I don't think it would be a "deal breaker," but it sure would hurt like Hell?
Could I accept it and eventually learn to forgive, and live with it having happened, providing we learn how to repair and continue our M?
This is the clincher for me, I really am uncertain. Think about it, every time I'd be with her, the thoughts that would invade and disrupt... .
So, should I take the chance; or is ignorance really bliss?
(Keep in mind, oblivion is one thing, we can't fault the stupid, but as the word "ignorant" implies, that the truth is willingly being ignored, in some way. Also keep in mind the old adage: "The truth will set you free." Does anyone know what that really means?)
Why don't people answer my posts like they do others?
Am I doing something wrong, too much info. or too many questions?
I'm starting to get a e-complex here people.
I need to figure something out here, soon (timing issue), and I'm interested to learn of other perspectives or points that I've not yet considered, so please....
If you had asked me a year ago what i would have done if I had found out my H was having an A, or that it would be with my best friend, I would have told them that he made his bed, now he can lie in it. I wouldn't have foreseen myself forgiving, much less DBing to save our marriage.
Yet I did find out those things. And I have forgiven him. And he wanted a D, it almost became final. He had the LOVE of the ages with OW. He wanted to marry her... even talked about getting his vasectomy reversed. Then he woke up to who she was, what he was throwing away, and he we are reconciling.
My point is that it is useless to try to imagine how you will handle the situation if it arises. You WILL have the immediate feelings of disgust and betrayal. I physically attacked my H when I found out. [And let me tell you, WAY out of character for me] But when the dust settles that is when you figure out how you want to handle things, your life, your R with your spouse.
Don't worry about the what ifs. All you have is today. See what you can do about making THAT better.
Quote: Why don't people answer my posts like they do others?
Am I doing something wrong, too much info. or too many questions?
The last person that took this "why won't you post to me" approach didn't fair too well mind you, but at least you didn't attack right out of the gate.
I don't know but I know for me, you are asking questions that I can't answer for you and thus I don't try. Also, I have NO idea from your post what your sitch is so it's hard for me to be specific. Most people here reply to posts that they identify with, that have issues that are similar to their own.
So, how about a little more background on your sitch and instead of asking questions that only you can answer, maybe ask "what would YOU do if..." or "how did YOU feel when your W did xxx..."
That all said, if I had it to do over again, I still don't know if I would want to know or not. I suspect, since I consider my knowing of the affair as the major catalyst in my becoming a better person, I guess I would say I would want to know but mind you, the pain almost did me in...
The distance, her coldness towards me, nothing but negative memories of our M & R, the edge-of-the-mattress clinging, the willingness to give up our family (we have young children involved), the constant running off for the evenings alone, now nights, etc., etc., etc.
I'm trying to determine whether, if an A is the case, how the knowledge would help the situ, how might it motivate or reduce me, how would my W take the fact that I know?
The ultimate goal is to save our M, but I don't want to screw things up further by sabotaging it myself.
Ok, so to summarize, you freaked because she ignored you after the birth of a child, said you didn't love her which sparked years of "living as roommates". Somewhere during this, she started to feel, and no wonder, that SHE didn't love YOU anymore, all the while, you decided that YOU did love her again. Is that about right?
So, now, you are "going through the motions" yet nothing much is happening.
Ok, so my comments are this...
First of all, you had issues in your marriage long before you essentially became a WAH to your W. That just compounded things and sparked the idea in your W that things needed to change, namely, her deciding that things were not working anymore, hence the roommate situation.
I would suggest that you stop going to counselors that tell you there is no hope. One way to avoid this is to talk to them BEFORE your first session and ask them their opinion on these things. I told my C that under NO circumstances did I want to hear "you need to get a divorce" from her and she agreed to that. I told her that divorce was NOT an option for me at the time. Of course, it WAS but not one I wanted to explore with my C. I wanted her help in my work with ME and really didn't need her to tell me my sitch was hopeless, etc.
Second, judging from the reaction your W is having, you are still being domineering, as you suggest you have been in your M. You may not see it as that, but SHE does. Why is that? A LOT of what we do and say can come off differently than we intend and I suspect that you continuing to "fix" the marriage that you effectively killed years ago is wearing thin to her.
Are you truly giving her space to figure this out? Have you GAL'd and tried to improve your life outside the marriage?
One thing of note from your previous thread, you actually seemed to take credit for this:
Quote: I have indeed stopped the chase, I'm 3 days of being "good" now; although last night I couldn't help but cuddle her in bed, again, she tolerated it. (It made me feel better being close to her, I hope it didn't upset her.)
Guy, 3 days? You have been "roommates" and acting as something other than a friend/lover for years and you think 3 days worth of ANYTHING will show up on her radar? Think again. You need to do this for months, maybe years for it to REALLY sink in, starting TODAY.
I will follow you closely because I sense you have a ton of control issues that will probably come out as you post more (don't worry, post and have no fear, I was like that too, I hope I can help), and some of that I get simply from your plea/demand that people post to you. Please, don't take offense, but it seems like the people who do that most are the ones not used to having what they say ignored and get angry when it is instead of altering their delivery or looking within to address why they are not being heard.
Some specifics...
Quote: I just can’t believe after all that we were to each other, what we had and built together, is gone and completely unsalvageable. Marriage is for life, very difficult at times, but in fact worth the fight. It’s not simply a rite of passage that everyone has to go through at least once before finally “getting it right.”
You have to be kidding, right? I hope you haven't said this to her. This, coming from a man who for YEARS (or at least a long time) was saying that he didn't love his wife and wanted a D...be smarter than this. YOU may think you've discovered the holy grail in this thought, but it's not, it's something that justifies your feelings at the moment. It was not your truth back then, and it's surely not hers now. To think otherwise is hypocrisy.
Quote:
The distance, her coldness towards me, nothing but negative memories of our M & R, the edge-of-the-mattress clinging, the willingness to give up our family (we have young children involved), the constant running off for the evenings alone, now nights, etc., etc., etc.
Know all about this. Unfortunately, you need to TRULY back off and give her the space to do what she needs to do. She needs to feel like you are NOT clinging to her and watching her every move. Read DB/DR VERY carefully and then DO IT.
Quote: I'm trying to determine whether, if an A is the case, how the knowledge would help the situ, how might it motivate or reduce me, how would my W take the fact that I know?
In a perfect DB world, it would have NO effect on you what-so-ever so take that for what it's worth. You have SO much wrong in your marriage that an A would truly just be one more thing, in my mind, given all that she's been through, a drop in the bucket.
Please, I am NOT trying to make you feel bad, just to see what you may be missing in all this. I think there truly IS hope for you but so far, you have been trying to "fix" your marriage the same way you helped break it, by controlling things you can't control and refusing to let her be heard, happy and ALONE if she so chooses. You can do wonders in this sitch, but you have to really want to do things that to this point seem totally foreign to you.
GH, thank you for responding and taking the time to honestly address the issues I've posted.
Your summary, as well as your deduction regarding pre-existing problems, is accurate.
RE: The C issue - Well said; done.
RE: The continued controlling - Again, well said, I hadn't previously perceived my attempts to “fix” our M it in this way, but when honestly doing so now I have to admit you're correct.
Yes, I do have a ton of control (and related) issues; it's how I've always been so fiscally successful, even as a young child; that is, until now.
I understand, however, that it has indeed contributed much turmoil to my social life; this is one of the items on my list-of-behaviors-and-mannerisms-to-change.
The 3 days of being "good" was simply an acknowledgement of the fact that I'd finally started to "get it." I understand that my words will not convince her. The articulation was intended to be light-hearted, not one of pride, but thanks again for your blunt honesty, I'll keep this thought in mind.
RE: Your reference to the "I can't believe..." quote - Yes, I was foolish enough to say it, aloud, to her.
I'm a logical/scientific/technical personality, one that, unfortunately when it happens, gets emotions mixed in the wrong proportion and follows an inappropriate methodology. As soon as it came out I intuitively knew it was wrong to have said.
I am indeed sincerely trying to understand her perspective, and thanks to this BB and other resources am beginning to understand many things, about myself and my W.
At this time I am experiencing emotions, feelings and states of mind that are truly new to me, insecurity and a feeling of being pathetic are a huge problems currently, and the issue of another man being involved and further mudding the water is constantly gnawing at me.
The thought that not only do I have to continue to improve myself, encourage or set the stage for a reconciliation, but also having to compete with another man for my W’s affections and Love, and the violation and trespass is simply overwhelming.
I have been grappling with the question of how the knowledge could help our situation; I’m simply confused, scared and insecure.
Quote: having to compete with another man for my W’s affections and Love, and the violation and trespass is simply overwhelming.
As much as you can, try to put OM out of your mind. it is not about him. It is about you. What can you do to make yourself a better person for yourself primarily and the end consequence being for your marriage as well.
DR has a technique to stop those thoughts. Every time you start thinking about it, envision a huge red stop sign. Sounds silly but over time it really allows you to control those negative thought patterns.
Many of us have found that this utter turmoil has caused us to wake up from our complacent lives and really become the people that we were destined to become. This is god giving us all a wake up call.
I have never experienced pain like that I have endured in the past six months. But you know what, I wouldn't trade it for the world. I could have *probably* changed on my own but it wouldn't have happened so fast and with absolute certainty that THIS is what I need to do to reshape my life.
Remember the best part about DBing is that regardless about what happens with your W you will come out of this a better person, more whole, more honest with yourself.
This is a journey and it starts with you. All you can do is change your life for the better. If she is ready to see it, she will. If she isn't then your life has still changed in a positive way.
Keep posting. You are making the right first steps to healing the chasm between you and your W.
And I would recommend the book "For Men Only." It really describes what women need from their partners. And of course M/V is an invaluable tool to understanding the needs of your wife.
I just received the DR book yesterday; just finished it a few minutes ago.
I was doing so much wrong, have been for a while.
My W took off yesterday to get some work done at our cabin, I was sure it as a time to meet her (suspected) OM.
It began to rain, instead of sitting in the cabin by herself all night she decided to come home early in the evening.
I'm beginning to think that due to my amazing insecurity at this time because of our situation that I am probably making things out of what they are not. At least doubting my suspicions, making too much of certain things.
I Love her, deeply and dearly, I will fight for our M, I will not lose hope that someday, hopefully soon, she will also.
I will not let her go, but I will let her be; I will not give up.
