I think my own frustrations were kind of driving with that thought. I was just teasing silly boy. But I know what you were saying. And heck, lots of people around here are going through "dry spells." Others are in the true desert Plus, my last three attempts this week to demo my best “throw down” were denied. Ouch. sorry Wow, this raises a really great question in line with our alpha male discussion. How would the alpha male try to get the love’n train moving in a day to day real life scenario? Take the middle of a hectic work week for example. The “Hey baby let’s go” approach just won’t fly with a LD partner. Though, the wind blown curtains with swinging chandeliers romance novel seduction by candle light is a bit much to pull off multiple times a week too. Any one have any thoughts? Considering the counter side too, how should the alpha male respond to rejection? So I take it you put yourself in the Alpha camp. I've been trying to figure you out and from your posts, you often come off very assertive, sometimes guarded (I think of that as typical Alpha), and then other times you seem so vulnerable in your posts, quite nurturing. So which is it? Are you Alpha and trying your hardest to come off nurturing or are you truly more nurturing and trying to come off Alpha? Don't tell me your the rare bird, the combo of the two?! Probably not, because you are having such R/M problems it just doesn't compute. So maybe that's the problem. Trying too hard either way and your W can read thru the BS. So my question is, how do you come off to her? Are you more Alpha "hey baby" or more Beta (good guy who tries too hard with the romance and stuff)? Neither one is going to work long term. At least not according to the book of LFL, lol. So need more data before I can figure out where we are going with this discussion...
"I've been trying to figure you out and from your posts, you often come off very assertive, sometimes guarded (I think of that as typical Alpha), and then other times you seem so vulnerable in your posts, quite nurturing. So which is it?"
LOL…see, the most beautiful thing about the internet is that you can present your best side and sweep all the things you would rather have ignored under the carpet. To answer your question, I was much more the guy that I want to be when I first met my W. Though, after years of this SSM situation, I don’t like who I have become at all. Thus, I am now working really hard to restore my personality back to a healthy state.
The end state I am working to restore is a balanced mix of Alpha and Beta. On one hand I don’t back down from anything. I don’t care what the odds are, if principals are at stake, I will fight. For example, when my SF beat my mom, I would jump in and fight until he either knocked me out, I broke something, or he quit. (This is part of why Cobra’s personality assessment was so off the mark). Also, from an alpha love perspective, I am very confident as long as mutual attraction is present. For example, yes, I have seduced my W, hoisted her off the ground, and taken her in a door way. On the flip side, the beta side needs heavy romance and passion. I have to receive validation from my partner that the fire still burns. I guess the alpha would not care. Also, unlike the alpha, my partner has to be an equal and we both should prioritize nurturing. Oh, and don’t forget Lusty that I share a lot of physical traits in common with my pseudonym. Thus, physically, I have a lot of challenges to overcome into order for the alpha personality to even be noticed. I don’t mean this description to sound self effacing, just honest.
Alright, so with the personality profile now out in the open, do you have any suggestions as to how the alpha would approach the day-to-day throw down? Also, what would appropriate responses be when rejected? I would appreciate any thoughts.
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. -- Socrates
Well Brian, since you brought up the pseudonym point again, I guess I have to ask if you look, act, dress fairly androgynous? That can create a lot of confusion if you say you are also fairly Alpha male. My impression is that you and your W have a similar "style" or look to you, no? I think when you are dealing with strictly male/female sexual relations, biology is a major pull. Women want MEN in the bedroom, and men want WOMEN. I think this is also where H and I get off course because it is hard to see each other as such opposites. We were viewing each other too much as equals, if that makes sense. Yet, that opposing dynamic is also what builds attraction and creates a better sexual enviroment (to me). So I agree with you that I would want someone who is an equal, intellectually, emotionally, etc, but the sexual attraction piece can often get lost in all that "equality." Maybe your W is also having a hard time seeing you for the MAN that you are due to the way your R/M has evolved. Maybe you need to not worry so much about the "throw down" right now but on working on simply seeing each other as attractive sexual human beings. Show some of those Alpha traits but not in a necessarily sexual way. The more she sees that I bet the more she will naturally be attracted to you. And as a true Alpha, when she shows signs of rejecting you, you don't show her your hurt. You certainly don't say sorry for not pleasing her, turning her on. That just reduces respect from the woman. You stand strong in the face of rejection. No skin off your nose. Confident but not jerky. You get the idea.
LFL, you are very astute and have drilled right into the heart of some of the complexities here. I would not mind chatting about it. However, I am afraid that the general populace would probably not understand the perspective. Furthermore, I doubt I would get a whole of feedback that would help my already bruised confidence right now. So, yea, I am dodging. Thank you very much for your perspective though. I will give your points serious consideration.
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. -- Socrates
I am afraid that the general populace would probably not understand the perspective. Furthermore, I doubt I would get a whole of feedback that would help my already bruised confidence right now. I will understand if you choose not to discuss it further. But just know that I'm open to listening if you want to talk about it and so are most other people on this board. Anyone who feels like they need to judge can just stay off my thread. See, I got your back. Anyways, glad it was at least some help. Your perspective on my own situation has helped me process some of my own stuff lately, so thanks for that.
LustForLife:
You know, I just realized how dangerous you are. I asked a general question about alpha behaviors in regards to seduction and rejection. Then, some how you turned that and got me to admit deeply personal details about myself that I don’t talk about even with my own W. I mean this in the best possible way, but I have a lot of sympathy for your H because I now see how impossible it would be for him to get away with anything Geez, you, Corri, Cobra, and MrsNOP need to open a practice somewhere.
“Anyways, glad it was at least some help.”
It was. Thank you for your genuine concern.
Your perspective on my own situation has helped me process some of my own stuff lately, so thanks for that.”
Glad I could be of help. Actually, I have a pretty built up personality profile of you too in case you would like any other insight. My whole young dating experience was locking eyes with that shy late-blooming intellectual New Wave girl seeking validation from across a crowded room. Though, unlike the other guys, I would just casually walk up, introduce myself, and start talking to her. Gosh, that is pretty much how I met nearly every girl I ever dated, including my W. Thus, if you would like the opinions of an outsider who is very familiar with your type, ask away.
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. -- Socrates
Hi LFL, Just thought I would check out your thread since you have been kind enough to drop in on mine.
Our R histories are strikingly similar! Late bloomers, few casual flings, first BF (VERY similar sounding guys) followed by settling down with somewhat beta H's.
Quote: A perfect guy to me would be both Mr. Assertive/Aggressive as well as Mr. Sensitive Good Guy. An Alpha male who can be assertive in the bedroom yet when out of the bedroom, he "gets" me on a very personal, friendship, emotional level. He shares easily. He expresses himself easily and can show his emotions. He respects me and thinks I am an interesting person. He's extremely smart but never cocky about any of it. I'm not sure this guy could even exist in reality.
My first BF was almost exactly this. Into that mix add a truly f*cked up FOO, and an intense jealousy of me having any friendships (including my own family) except for him and you can see why I eventually left him. But when the two of us were alone together or just hanging with his friends that is exactly how he was (I still miss him).
I think Chrome and Brian_M seem to have read this as sensitive nice guy, but I did not, I read the assertive/aggressive alpha part but with the sensitivity to back down if they have crossed a line or are just plain wrong about something. To take account of another's needs and not just be a selfish jerk. Kind of like a really great leader, who knows where they are going and can really inspire a team to follow them but not insensitive to people's needs.
The biology of settling down with a beta while still fancying the alpha is actually pretty well observed. Birds were thought to be monogomous but in fact female birds nest-build with a safe beta and then have A's on the side with the alphas. This has also been found to be the case in humans very frequently. Often with the H's unaware that all but the first-born is not theirs. It is kind of an obvious strategy genetically. You want your kids to be alphas but these aren't necessarily the most reliable guys to nest-build with
When you say you wish it were socially acceptable to have A's outside marriage - in some places it is. In France very much so. A marriage is seen as social convention which keeps families and property together. When the couple reach the end of the "in love" stage they are usually free to have discreet affairs. No-one worries too much about it. Dinner with the in-laws is strictly family the mistress or lover never referred to. In other social settings, like a night out with the girls (or boys) people will talk openly about their lover. It seems it is our Anglo-saxon world that is more idealistic about what marriage should mean, but I think it is unfortunate as the current divorce rates are disasterous and take such a terrible toll on children.
Food for thought
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I just realized how dangerous you are. You JUST realized?! Oh come on, I'm as harmless as a little bunny rabbit. some how you turned that and got me to admit deeply personal details about myself that I don’t talk about even with my own W. That's an acquired skill. I mean this in the best possible way, but I have a lot of sympathy for your H because I now see how impossible it would be for him to get away with anything That's true. I'm a real PITA sometimes. In fact, H and I just got in a fight last night because of my annoying ability to analyze every damm thing in our M. And as a result, no sex for me. Whahhhh!! Geez, you, Corri, Cobra, and MrsNOP need to open a practice somewhere. Can you imagine? A fear most clients would be walking out of our offices in tears most days. Yet, much more insightful! Thank you for your genuine concern It is genuine. "a friend in need's a friend indeed" I have a pretty built up personality profile of you too in case you would like any other insight. That's scary. And I'm always open to gaining more insight, so fire away anytime. My whole young dating experience was locking eyes with that shy late-blooming intellectual New Wave girl seeking validation from across a crowded room. Though, unlike the other guys, I would just casually walk up, introduce myself, and start talking to her. That was us to a tee! Frighteningly similar. H did that exact "technique" as you. Came right up to me and introduced himself (although he said it took at least three beers to get up the nerve.) if you would like the opinions of an outsider who is very familiar with your type, ask away That was a very Alpha male thing to say. my type...you're a trip.
Hi Fran Yes, it does sound like we have similar histories. The biology of settling down with a beta while still fancying the alpha is actually pretty well observed. Birds were thought to be monogomous but in fact female birds nest-build with a safe beta and then have A's on the side with the alphas. This has also been found to be the case in humans very frequently. Often with the H's unaware that all but the first-born is not theirs. It is kind of an obvious strategy genetically. You want your kids to be alphas but these aren't necessarily the most reliable guys to nest-build with Interesting points, especially about the birds. Certainly can translate to humans. About the blood type, it's fairly common for medical practices to withhold, or at least not advertise, the blood types of their patients, for that very reason you spoke of, paternity. A fairly large number of babies are born to men other than the husband. Doctors are aware of this and attempt to avoid any family chaos by "outing" thro blood tests. I know someone who just attempted to get their families blood types and the doctor flat out said, "oh that's not important." I guess if she pushed she could find out but she didn't. How many people even know their own blood type. I know mine, but only because I looked at my chart while pregnant. When you say you wish it were socially acceptable to have A's outside marriage - in some places it is. In France very much so. A marriage is seen as social convention which keeps families and property together. When the couple reach the end of the "in love" stage they are usually free to have discreet affairs. No-one worries too much about it. Dinner with the in-laws is strictly family the mistress or lover never referred to. In other social settings, like a night out with the girls (or boys) people will talk openly about their lover. It seems it is our Anglo-saxon world that is more idealistic about what marriage should mean Ah yes, ideal culture vs real culture. Very common. Ideally we say we believe in one man and one woman forever in M, but the reality is, LOTS of people do not live up to that ideal. Again, the push from biology makes it very difficult. And we construct these covert norms "it's ok as long as you either don't talk about it" or like you were saying in France, it's not even covert, but right out in the open. We tend to be much more conservative in the U.S.
VENT: Yesterday was a little stressful for H and I because we ended up geting into fight about him being too "rigid." He tends to be a perfectionist and is slightly OCD. So if things don't fit into his neat little comfort zone, he tends to get anxious and clearly uncomfortable in his surroundings. The fact that I was pointing this out to him made him even more upset. He kept saying, I thought things were going so good. I thought we were happy." He also tends to catastrophize things as well. So all of these traits wrapped together just make me worry some because in the back of my head I'm thinking, this is how he was before and he ended up leaving. Granted the depression isn't there anymore but some of his personality traits just make me concerned. I could see him getting more anxious as we had the fight and I told him to just tell me what he thought, what was he thinking, I want to hear it, especially any bad. He could barely say he was pissed off that we were fighting. He kept saying he was "hurt", "upset", "confused" etc but Never angry. I could tell he was saying things to try and just end the fight but that was pissing me off more because he always tries to conflict avoid. Why can't he just be Real with me and show some Real F-ing emotions!!! Anyways, we went to bed shortly after and he didn't even give me a good night kiss. Well, I couldn't let that one slide so I confronted him on that too! I feel like we should be able to Talk about these things if our M is going to survive. I want to have that kind of M. I'm tired of having to cover up our feelings (our rage, our hurt, our sexuality, etc). So this morning things seemed better. We went to a birthday party at a friend's house, H started drinking with his friends and made a few comments related to last nights fight but in a jokey way. I thought it was very passive aggressive but let it slide since we were in the middle of the party. In fact, I dropped the whole thing because I didn't want to have a repeat of last night and frankly, I'm still freaking horny and wanted to have sex when we got home. So we get the kids to bed, I climb on top of him while he's on the couch watching tv, and he says "it's just not going to happen." I think this is the first time he has out-right rejected such a blatant sexual advance from me since our reconciliation. He blamed the alcohol and said maybe later. He was asleep about 10 minutes later. Yep, fast asleep 9pm on a Saturday night. And here I am typing on this damm computer instead of F-ing my H. Ok, vent over.
To answer your question, I was much more the guy that I want to be when I first met my W. Though, after years of this SSM situation, I don’t like who I have become at all. Thus, I am now working really hard to restore my personality back to a healthy state. 
Thank you very much for your perspective though. I will give your points serious consideration. 
