Yes, I understand that affairs are an addiction. I know I am addicted to OM. I know that OM will be the death of me, that I will love him always, that if he was to leave his wife I would go with him… it doesn't matter. I am trying to remove OM from my life but we do work for the same company. I cannot afford to just up and quit my job. H and I have discussed the possibilities of my seeking another but there are a lot of variables (current school schedule, his job, future college plans, S school). H is aware of communication OM sends to me and stated that I could provide generic reply. I am trying to put Harley's requirements into practice as much as I possibly can with the state we are in.
I know H needs to meet my needs. I have tried to get him to meet them but as I've posted earlier I do not trust him in that he will change to meet my needs. My question I have to ask myself is am I willing to be happy with the fact that he will not meet the needs.
The decision of wanting my marriage I am asking myself. H and I expected me to leave when S was leaving the nest. Now that I've done it earlier, I need to analysis why am I going back, will I do it again, is it fair to H, am I looking for excuses. I don't know.
PJ, I appreciate your honesty, especially considering that many of theposters on this bb are on the receiving end of this situ. As for the addiction to your OM, is it possible that the reason you are addicted is because he won't leave his wife, and therefore your fantasy has the perfect fulfilment? By that I mean that there is no commitment involved with a man who won't leave his wife, therefore it will always be in a perfect fantasy world, to a certain extent. The other side of the addiction is to try and conquer something that refuses to give up everything for you, ie the wife. My h is/was having an EA with a woman for almost three years. I really believe it was never a PA, (maybe I'm foolish for believing so) she's married and won't leave her h, but because he could never have her in any real sense, it leaves room to create a perfect world scenario, where one never has to commit. Perhaps your h is making himself too available to you, and by doing so, you lose interest in him. Just a thought, and I may be way off base. Thank you for posting, and please keep doing so. Please don't be put off by any of our responses, as they are sometimes wrapped in our own hurts. The board is for all of us to learn and to share.
If you've read Harley closely, you know that he advises people to LEAVE THEIR JOBS AND EVEN THE STATE THEY LIVE IN if it is the only way to get away from their other person. As long as your OM is around, your objectives about your marriage will never be clear. Your H won't have a fighting chance.
It's SIMPLY NOT TRUE that your H can't meet your needs. You are putting him in a box and trapping him with your low expectations. It might, however, be true that he doesn't WANT to meet your needs. Give him a chance! Tell him very specifically what you want and how you want him to do it. (Harley's books are great guidelines.) But be sure you are not asking of him things that no one can deliver--endless fun, romance, and excitement.
I sense that those are in fact things you are looking for. To save your marriage, if that is what you want, you will not only have to get the OM the hell ot of your life NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES, you will have to get realistic about what marriage can provide. That takes some soul searching. When you get real with yourself about what marriage can provide, give your H a chance!
Remember, you will never be happy inside marriage until you are happy inside yourself. And I suspect that even if you married the OM, you'd find yourself back where you are right now after a time.
Get real with yourself, Jane. Don't cheat yourself and others who depend on you of what is available to you in this life.
I understand Harley's writings but H and I will not put all into practice. It is not practical for me to leave company that I've worked at for over eleven years nor H's new company, which is just starting to take off. I'm finishing school for my degree. Son just started high school. I don't agree with Harley's priorities and will not make that kind of sacrifice. I am keeping H aware of schedule, allowing him to keep tabs on me, trying to make sure that he knows I'm not with OM. I forward him e-mails OM sends conversations had. I've told H that I am trying to make one last chance for OR that if it doesn't work it will not be because of OM. The only thing that I've not disclosed to H is this site. I do tell him of the postings and my responses but just not were to go to read them for himself. I'm not sure why, guess I'm just afraid that what I may say here will be either interpreted wrong or used as ammunition.
It is difficult to get real when everything is in limbo. My needs with H are very different than with OM. I know I am the one who cheated and betrayed my marriage but yet I am the one who doesn't trust. I don't trust myself to be honest with my H. I do not feel I can express my needs to him. For example, yesterday he had an hour before his ride was leaving to go home. He asked if I wanted to spend the time together and talk. I agreed to the time together but we ended up going to a bookstore and looking around rather than talking. H already knew I was in a melancholy mood but I could not put into words why and so we just went about our business. I cannot express my need for sex to him. Now this probably seems strange to others but I need the release regularly. Since he is not physically attractive to me it is difficult for me to initiate. I wish I could figure out why I don't trust him! What did he do to me or is just that I don't respect him? Is there a difference? I believe these are the roots of my problem and not the OM.
Jane, presumably you were at one time physically attracted to your h, otherwise you wouldn't have had an affair with him, and wouldn't have married him. Can you pinpoint when the attraction stopped, and what might have led up to it? Can you look back over your marriage and see the times when your h has not been attractive to you, and whether that's been because you were angry with him, but didn't say anything? Look for patterns in your behaviour and your h's behaviour. That will unlock the key to the actions that lead to other actions. Identify times when you HAVE been attracted to your h, and see why that was, and what you both did to cultivate that. I believe that you arenot attracted to your h right now because you're still infatuated with OM, and fantasize about him. Loving someone is a conscious exercise, it is an act of the will, and you can will yourself to get over the other addiction, and to look more fondly at your h. Is it possible that you are trying to push yourself too much to have feelings right away for him, and therefore setting yourself up for disappointment. Can you set out some goals, and take what we call baby steps toward accomplishing those goals. Can you talk to your h and tell him you want to take it easy, that you would like to develop such and such a type of relationship first before you get into the sex. If you really want your marriage to work, you need to get OM out of your system, and as much out of your range as possible. My h has deliberately put himself in OW's path as much as possible, and has refused to give her up for me (it's not even a PA, and she has told him flat out she doesn't want tob e romantically involved with him). He is determined to turn it from an erotic love into a platonic one, and doesn't seem to care how much it hurts me.
Instead of trying to talk to your h, who knows very well that you don't trust him, and that you don't feel that comfortable around, and who is probably very awkward because of that, could you instead suggest doing fun things together, without any pressures. It sounds to me like you are putting a lot of pressure on yourself to feel something that you don't feel right now, but explain that to your h so he doesn't feel left out, so he knows what's going on, so he feels included in your life, even if you can't get to a physically intimate point.
How come everything so logical appears to be so difficult?
I believe the attraction to my H in the beginning was stemmed from his personality and never was a physical attraction. He appeared confident and had many life experiences to talk about. When we started dating I was 20 and he was 39. I had a very difficult teenage period (molestation, run-away, pregnant at 16). Although I was married, the marriage was a total mistake and both first H and I knew it. I needed to get out of my hometown. We were only together for 10 months although married for 4 years. (I refused to file for D because second H wanted to get married and I didn't.)
I would have to say I was (am?) very dependent on being with a man. Being a young mother with no contact with S's biological father I also needed a father for S. (H and I have talked about this as well, H used me too.) I often wonder if I view H as father figure for myself more than H. H helped me grow up. He even admits that. He allowed me the ability to explore and find myself. He has supported and encouraged me in my decisions. I am in a way repeating his life too. He left his first W when he was 31 and he returned to school. It is scary how history repeats itself in the strangest ways.
Now, I wonder if I am being just like a D and trying to leave the nest. But if that was true why the OM? Did I revert back to my old self?
I believe we have set goals. We have been changing our home (painting and decorating). We have been doing more activities together but again at my direction. Yet we are maintaining separation. Keeping separate checking accounts, keeping my PO box, keeping the items from my apartment in storage, keeping bills separate.
I agree that I am trying to force myself to feel love again. Being that it is a choice, why can't I make it happen quickly? I am a person who expects results. We have been doing 'fun' things together but the gratification just hasn't been there for me. I just wish I knew I wanted and what would make me happy?
Why am I the one focusing on OR? How do you measure the baby steps? Was there ever really love in OR or was it just convenience? How come I never could say 'I love you' to H as easily as OM?
I am glad for this BB. If I was to talk to H like this he would become so physiological.
PJ, I said love is a conscious choice and an act of will, but I didn't say the will is always strong enough to force the decision. Give yourself the luxury of time. Maybe it will come back. Is it possible you feel guilty about what you've done, and how you've hurt your h? I've tried telling my h that guilt is the worst thing for renewing any kind of desire for another. It makes you serve someone, but it does not make you desire them. And he has tried to do nice things for me, because he's felt guilty, not only for how he's treated me in the past, but also for not loving me as he feels he should.
Things that seem logical being so difficult is because we're dealing with human emotions, which are not always subject to ration, though I do think you can make them so. Feelings can follow behaviour -- that's certainly one of the teachings of the church. Abide by certain tenets and you will start to live those tenets deep within you. Try to have a good time with your h. Talk to him and tell him that's what you'd like to do, without any pressure to be sexually intimate. Don't tell him it's because you aren't attracted, but say you want to go more slowly and start where you should have, from friendship. Is it possible that the reason you don't trust him is because your relationship began when you were so young that you have always felt a bit of an inbalance? As an illustration, I worked with a very good friend of mine a long time ago (that's how we met), but she was my boss. We both left the company not long after meeting each other, and we became really good friends. If we were to work together now, however, it would not work, because she will always have the view of me that I am her subordinate. That happens in work situations for sure, where the way you met is the way your relationship stays, with respect to a balance of power. Can you talk to your h about these things, feel him out, explore feelings with him of this nature. But when you talk to him, avoid statements that suggest you are criticizing him, or that you are disappointed in him. Ask him quesitons like "is it possible that we are falling into such and such a pattern...."
I can't stress the light-hearted approach enough. My h and I were in a really bad way about six months ago, and we have pulled it back from the brink again, and I do credit Michele's DB principles for that. Keepign things light, having fun together, finding ways to enjoy each other's company, and not forcing a commitment or a guarantee or the pressure of being in love. Just be friends for now. But explain it to him so that he doens't feel you are excluding him. If he feels that you are trustful enough of him to talk about this, and to explain what you doing, and that you need time and space to work things out your own way, I guarantee you he will give you far more space and be much more comfortable to be around, then if you leave him in the dark wondering what he's done to upset you now.
Take Jenny Baker's suggestion about seeking psychotherapy too. She's very wise and I have turned to her for advice many, many times.
That's an important clue: that your H does not physically attract you anymore. Why? What can he improve? He owes it to you to look as good as he can for you (and vice versa, for all marriges.) This is fundamental!
And yes, I think you have stopped respecting him. Why? Only you can figure that one out. What attracted you to him in the first place? What is it that the OM does for you? Write all that down. That's what your H needs to start doing for you. (Don't give him the list just yet, you still need some relationship coaching!) You sound like a lady who likes action, excitement, attention, and passion, and I don't get those things from the picture you are giving us of your husband. Maybe he needs to shake things up a little, even as you learn to become realistic about what he can and can't do for you (and what ANY man can and can't do for you).
I think you need INDIVIDUAL counseling in addition to couple's counseling. You've got to get at the root of your unhappiness. Some of it is your H, some of it is YOU.
And you and your H better BOTH be sure you want this marriage. I don't get any sense of that desire from you or from what you have told us about your H.
Any chance, by the way, that you are clincally depressed? Even mild depression can make a situation look hopeless. You might want to have a dr. check. Because you don't sound on fire about anything in life, other than having a longing for the OM.
Do you think that your H loves you? That is, is he clamoring to save this marriage? At least ONE of you has to have that passion till the other catches it.
I saw another clue: early in the relationship you didn't do things he asked to do so he quit asking. He gave up! I think you killed his desire! It's YOUR responsibilty to do things he asks, just to be a sport, OR to negotiate a more mutually agreeable plan. Can't you all brainstorm TOGETHER things you can do that you will both enjoy? You don't have to be in each other's pockets, but you need SOMETHING that the two of you can have a good time doing.
You said yourself that you are more of a taker than a giver. That will never work!!!!! I think you are waiting passively on your H or some other man to make you happy by meeting all your desire. Get off your duff, girlfriend! Start DOING SOMETHING FOR YOUR H--it's very true that love follows action, not the other way around. If I may say so, don't be so self-absorbed! Giving and taking must be in balance: your H should meet your needs and you his.
If I had to make one more guess--and I'm betting your wishing you could put a sock in my mouth right now--I would guess that you are spiritually directionless. You are looking to self and others for fulfillment that can only come from God and from knowing who you are in God. I'm not a holy roller, so don't tune me out yet. Just as an experiment, if you don't go to church, pick one you think you can stand and go for 6 weeks. Get your mind off purely earthly things like what you want and relationships and look at the bigger picture. See if that pierces your gloom and enlarges your perspective.
Or spend one weekend in a soup kitchen, helping somebody who is worse off that you. I don't mean to sound harsh. But I think you are going in circles, trapped in introspection and self-aborption and I think you need a kick in the pants. I think your life is in a rut because you are looking at it through the same old dirty lenses, asking yourself only, "How can I be happy?"
Happiness is by-product. You don't get it by making it your sole pursuit. You must be spiritually grounded and you must think of others BEFORE you think of your own needs. Your own needs seem so looming right now, I'm guessing, because they are all you are thinking about.
I do wish you a lot of luck, Jane. I hope you won't find your time with us here wasted. If your H is hurting, for god's sake, reach out to that man. And reach into yourself and get on track.
I just saw the portion of your posting where you described some horrible things that happened in your teenage years. Forgive me, I was reading so quickly before and that determined the tone of my last posting to you, which admittedly was strongly worded.
Jane, you need competent individual therapy. There is so much junk in your attic that needs cleaning out. You will never be happy until you set yourself free of your past, until you are at peace with yourself.
You probably did marriage your H for the wron reasons. There's an old saying: "Sometimes you make the right decision, sometimes you have to make the decision right!" You married this man, therefore you owe him another chance. If YOU get your act cleaned up in therapy and start giving to HIM, you might be damned surprised at what he can do for you!
You need to read Phil McGraw's "Relationship Rescue." It's about inner work as much as outer work on relationships. Terrible things have happened to you. But you've got to face them and move past them if you hope to be happy. Don't make you and the others around you keep paying.
Go on, Jane--get a good counselor. If your couples counselor does individual counseling for persons with your background, great. If not, ask for a recommendation. In fact, you might just concentrate on individual therapy right now. If that puzzles your H, tell him you have to work on your first as a means of saving the marriage.
Whoah! Time out! Didn't anyone else see the word "molestation" in PJ's post?
Pick up any book on childhood sexual abuse and you'll see that "lack of trust" is a big issue for those who have been abused. Also, talking about sexual needs and preferences is as well!
Girl, get yourself to therapy and talk about your abuse...It affects all that you do now, no matter how slight you might think it is today!
