Joanne, I am really happy that things are a bit better between you. I’m thrilled that he’s changing and that you’re noticing it and responding better in kind. That’s the beginning of a solution avalanche! So let’s keep going. You wrote:
Anyway, I'd better get down to the main topic. "I would like him to treat me at least as well as he does other people." 1. Yes, I want him to smile when he comes home and look happy to be here. He might tell me he's missed me or ask what's for dinner, suggest something to do that evening. 2. He can talk about work. If he's stressed about something, he can talk about it and I'll listen. Half an hour or longer, if necessary. When he's finished talking about it, I would like him to be interested and talk about plans for the evening or things in the house or ask me about my day. Basically though, he can talk at any time about anything that is on his mind about work but make sure he balances it with other things. 3. OK, sincerity and lightheartedness are attitudes, not actions. Perhaps he would tease me or ask what is for dinner, or notice something I've changed in the house, or changed about my appearance.
This is perfect. You got it right this time. You are being concrete, action-oriented, and your requests are certainly do-able.
I have said that he found certain things controlling and I suppose I'm not really being fair about that. To be truthful, his whole attitude during most of our marriage was that he felt I was controlling but he has changed that attitude and now realises that it wasn't controlling at all but that I was trying to build a balance in our life and relationship. He doesn't say that about me any more.
That’s great. I’m glad he realizes that your attempt at closeness was not a controlling gesture. He’s growing up! Good for both of you!
I have asked him if he feels that he is not NO 1 in my life, that I have treated him like he wasn't important and he says no, quite the opposite. However, there is a reason why I believe he might feel a lack of importance but that is not something I feel I would like to share on this board, nor do I feel it is relevant to this discussion. Sorry.
I am glad that you have done some soul-searching here. Joanne, it’s not important that I or anyone else on the board knows about this issue. What’s important is that YOU do, and if you’re correct about your assumptions, that you do something to make him feel more important. That’s great.
"I would like him to be interested in me, who I am and how I feel about everything and anything." He would ask me how my day has gone, ask me if I've been a basket case of tears or managed to get through the day, if I had any major traumas. It's difficult for me to go back to places we all shared and had fun and I'm not ducking that. It upsets me badly the first time and then gets easier. Going shopping is a nightmare for me.
I've also voiced feelings about what I want to do in my life. My life and my career has been standing still since I got married, and I really wanted to be a stay at home mother but always had to take a job to bolster up finances due to bad planning. So although I could have stayed at home and studied or done some of the things I wanted to, I was stuck at the same job and frustrated at not having enough time with my kids. That might sound like a bit of a contradiction. So the things he could say to me is "That sound like a good idea, tell me more." Or "Is there anything I can do to help get you information." In other areas, yes, he could say, "Why did you act like that to X?" "I heard what X said to you and I didn't like it, are you OK?" Yes, I want him to ask me more about my thoughts and feelings and I'm very clear about some things that I want in my life. My direction work wise is not clear. I've come up with a couple of ideas and kicked them around in discussions. He has started to be more supportive. The other day he said why don't I do a distance learning course in Psychology and we'd find the money so that I could do it. He also spoke to someone who has a friend whose wife does counseling here. His direct contact is going to find out some information about setting up to do that here, even perhaps arrange a meeting with this woman. So all that is positive and proactive and very helpful. I've told him I'd like to buy your package on KLA and will discuss this further to sort out the finances to accommodate it. I am happy with who I am but frustrated with not doing something productive with my life. I totally agree that if I had a satisfying career that would fit with the time I want and need to be with my family, then I might find that it simplified my thoughts and actions in my relationship. However, the relationship has to be right at the same time and support and teamwork must be part of it so that everything balances out.
You said a lot here. Basically, I think you’re saying that you want him to ask you questions about your thoughts and feelings about many different topics. This will show you that he’s thinking about you.
I’m not sure what you were talking about when you said you hate shopping or that going to places that were fun is hard for you, but that doesn’t really pertain to things you are asking from him anyway.
I know you are clear-headed about some things in your life, and not so clear about others…like your profession perhaps. It’s great that you are figuring that out and that he seems to be very supportive right now. Be sure to let him know, if you haven’t already, how very much it means to you that he is showing interest and caring about your happiness work-wise. I bet you told him that already though.
I know I probably don’t need to say this, but I really hope that you are not hanging on to lingering resentment about the past – having to work and not having felt satisfied with your job. It will only make you feel bad and prevent you and your husband from continuing to make progress. The past is the past, there’s no way to change that. But you can create your future and I see you doing that. Your thoughts about becoming a counselor sound wonderful. You’d be great as a counselor and/or …as a KLA leader. I truly can envision how you could help people find happiness in their lives. So, go for it!
You’re absolutely right that how you feel about your relationship impacts on how you feel about and the ease with which you can manage the rest of your life. So, you’re on the way to fixing that now. I’m glad that you can also see how, when you feel satisfied with what you’re doing everyday (your job, mothering, and so on), that it’s easier to feel content with your spouse. I talk with many women who don’t feel satisfied with what they’re doing with their personal lives and then spend too much time putting their marriages under microscopes. I realize that you could see flaws in your marriage with a naked eye, but I’m telling you, that once you find comfort in what you’re doing and having more balance in life, you husband will start looking better. I promise you. So, thanks for the honesty here.
"I need him to initiate talking that isn't about him or his job or other people but is about me, him and us." In hindsight, this sounds very selfish and self centered, but isn't meant to be.
It doesn’t sound selfish at all. I know you want balance. That’s fair enough.
I appreciate that this is difficult for him and he is getting better at it. No, I don't compliment him and talk my appreciation of that as much as I should.
I’m glad he’s getting better about this. I’m glad you understand this is hard for him. And finally, I’m glad you can see that you should compliment him more. Good for you on all three counts.
If he switched off everything in his head apart from the words I am saying to him, I would know this because when he replied to me he would use my words in replying to me, he would tell me that he understood and give me his perception of what I'm saying. I will talk to him about scheduling work talk time and OR talk time and we will come to an agreement.
What can I say… this is perfect.
Now, about me being too directive and him not standing up to me. Yes, I am direct and think I am pretty clear, although from this discussion I can see that there is plenty room for improvement!!! Our biggest problem in that area is that I am a very direct, up front kind of person. I don't play games, I don't manipulate and I'm not dishonest. Most of our marriage he has lied and manipulated to get what he wants. I simply ask. However, he decided that I was controlling and manipulative. I wasn't getting what I wanted from my marriage, in spite of asking, explaining why, and doing it in the simplest possible terms. For example, " Darling, if you feel you have to play golf 5 nights a week, could I please come with you once or twice?" Yes, I went for golf lessons so that it could be something we shared and enjoyed together. But he didn't want to share that with me, he wanted to play only with the boys. He wasn't getting what he wanted from the marriage and instead of sorting it out with me, he just went out and lived a life just for him. He felt me wanting to share these things with him was me trying to control him. He has always told me what he likes, wants and needs and I have bent over backwards to accommodate those but I drew the line at also living a life of my own without him. One, because I didn't want to give him permission to do that and two, because it didn't solve the problem and would only have encouraged our drifting apart. There was no way, no how, I was going to allow myself to be in a position to give in to the temptation of an affair. I can say very truthfully that I have never been in a position to be tempted and haven't cheated on my marriage in any way at all.
I am very happy to open up the Pandora's box. I want and need the whole package deal of honesty, both positive and negative. I am totally ready for the man I want him to become because I believe totally that the truth is always easier to deal with, no matter what it is. At least that way I will learn about who this man is that I am married to and learn also what I need to learn about living with that man. If I know where he's coming from, and I know where I'm coming from, we can work out the necessary compromises to make life easier for both of us and get on with really enjoying one another.
Good. I’m pleased that you are ready for the honesty you are asking for from him. The only catch is that when he tells you something that doesn’t coincide with your wishes, you really need to hold back from getting upset with him. Instead, you need to thank him for sharing, acknowledge the effort he’s making in being honest with you, and then gently tell him how you feel. IF you get angry when he’s sharing, you will shut down the door of communication.
To your earlier comment about his wanting to live his life separate from you. Some men have a hard time giving up their boyhood. They marry, but they still want to play their sports, hang out with their buddies eight days a week. If that is the person who your husband was, I can truly understand your hurt and resentment. I am so pleased that he has finally recognized the importance of your marriage and your family. Sometimes a crisis has to occur for men like this to wake up. Maybe this is what has happened in your marriage. Who knows? In any case, it’s truly a blessing that your husband now appreciates you and has a better understanding of what you want from him and your lives together. You’ve got a long way to go, but at least you’ve started on the right road. Congratulations!
Keep in mind that this road to healing is fraught with bumps and challenges. Just when you think you are really making progress, you’ll have a bad day- or a few, for that matter. That’s when you’ll start thinking, “See, I knew he couldn’t sustain these positive changes,” or “I knew these good things weren’t real.” But that’s not accurate. In truth, real change, the kind that lasts, is three steps forward and two steps back. As much as you’d like to eliminate hard times, it just doesn’t happen.
I know you’re cautious, and that’s good. The key here is to strike a balance between being somewhat cautious and somewhat excited about the possibilities. Having a foot in both camps will help you handle disappointments and allow you to feel joy in small steps forward. If anyone and do this, Joanne, it’s you.
Now onto the homework assignment. Quite frankly, I've asked myself this so many times and found it hard to come up with the answers. However, I do have to say that today we had a little disagreement and a discussion about trust. He said that he had noticed how much I have changed in the last few days and that has made him happier in the way he has treated me. I said maybe the way I'm acting is because of the way you have changed and the way you have been treating me in the past few days. He looked a little stunned and said, "I never thought about it that way."
As I’ve said over and over, it’s great that you are recognizing the changes in each other. It’s also great that you handled a disagreement in a more productive way. That’s an excellent sign. I want to remind you though Joanne, that when your husband tells you that you are different lately, I’m sure he’s right. Your changes are making it easier for him to be the man you want him to be. It’s equally important for you to figure out what you need to do more of in order to increase the chances he will continue to improve. For some reason, he likes you more this way.
Now you’re probably thinking, “I’m this way all the time, he just hasn’t had his eyes open.” Well, maybe some of that is true, but I suspect you have been different lately. And, as you’re about to see, I’m going to encourage you to figure out what’s different about you.
He is changing, slowly, but changing nevertheless. He is being much softer and gentler and making suggestions about things I do. My friend was here today and he said why didn't we both go out to lunch, he'd watch the children. He's living the caring and consideration but the difference is that he's enjoying it. I don't doubt for a second that the superficial things are important too, I do appreciate them and I tell him. But I can feel the difference now. He's not doing them because he believes he's doing something wonderful for me, he's doing them because he wants to.
I’m delight that he wants to be more involved for himself, but it’s essential that you understand something important here. There are times when it’s absolutely okay, even wonderful, if he does something to please you, even if his heart isn’t completely in it. That’s what real giving is all about. You can’t always expect him to want what you want, to value what you value. The fact that he would be willing to do things that might be more important to you than him, is an act of caring. Take it for what it is. Having said that, it’s still glorious that he’s appreciating the things you hoped he would.
He's a physical person, that's his language and I'm beginning to stop feeling threatened by it and just enjoying it. And if you want to know why I feel threatened by it, it's because that is always his way of getting me to give in to what he wants. But……..I have to keep reminding myself that those gestures are in the past and that we are working at building a new and different future. I don't expect everything to change, this is my H, and there are some things that won't change. The things that are worth keeping are his physical affection and his fun. Those are things that I need to nurture. There are probably lots more but I need to stop here. My computer time as run into excess and together time is calling.
You are being realistic here and that gives me great hope. You sound more accepting of him and quite frankly, acceptance is a big part of what makes relationships healthy. He’s coming closer to you, and you’re coming closer to him. Bingo! You’ve got it. Now keep doing what works!
Actually, there are two homework assignments
1- I want you to write down three things you need to (continue to) do so that your husband will continue to feel motivated to please you. In other words, what in your new approach makes in more likely that he wants to be kind and supportive. Please don’t just say, “His changes have nothing to do with me, he just finally understands what I’ve been saying all along.” Take some responsibility here. If you can’t figure out how you’re different, feel free to ask him. Get him to be specific. He already said that you’re being nicer to him. How are you being nicer? That’s what we need to know. 2- This is still the homework assignment I gave you a few days ago. Keep track of what’s happening in your lives together that you want to continue to happen. Be specific- just like the goal-setting exercise. What are both of you doing when things are working? What’s different about your life, your family, your work, and so on, when things are going smoothly? Then post your list here.
Bottom line, Joanne, you are truly a remarkable woman. There are many women who, when they feel hurt, resentful, or devastated in the way you have, just simply walk away. Everyone here knows that. We admire your strength and your values. Your husband and your family are very lucky to have you. And so are we, for that matter. Over to you again.
