Quote: Others on this board are not wrestling with this level in their relationship (well, maybe a few of us are). But NONE that have replied to my post are on this level (maybe Heather’s H to some degree). That is why I think my actions seem so offensive to so many.
I think this is exactly right. Her defensiveness is-- from her perspective-- literally a survival mechanism. This is not a princess from the suburbs who is just wanting to have her way. I see your interactions at more of a (for lack of a better term) "dog eat dog" level.
My bf has some of this. He is very quick to conclude (I would say "imagine") that his integrity is being challenged and his defensiveness feels to him like a fight to the death.
I wonder if your W also has this trait: I have found that with most people I know, you can kind of build up a "fund" of good will. For example, you have a nice dinner, maybe watch a movie you both like, have a nice conversation about something you both are interested in, and so you arrive at a level where both of you have your shields down and are feeling pretty good. Then if something difficult comes up, or one of you brings it up, the good feeling "in the air" smooths the convo-- sort of lubricates the machinery and that difficult thing can be dealt with perhaps more easily than it might have been if that fund of good will had not been built up.
Not so with bf. And I might add that my father was exactly the same way. You can be bopping along pleasantly, talking about cool stuff, laughing, having a pretty good time, but bf (and Daddy) could turn on you in an instant and all the good will vanishes. It's like you're walking out on the ice and as you go, it feels thicker and thicker, so you keep walking, and after a while, you think, "Okay, this ice is thick enough to walk on," and just then, you step through into the icy water below. With my father you could NEVER let your guard down. There was no residual fund of good will that would last for sure through one whole conversation, let alone from one conversation to another.
With my father (and with bf) there was no, "Let's get him in a good mood and then ask him." You could get him in a good mood, but with the "wrong" question, the good mood would instantly vanish and he would come at you with bared fangs.
I think this is a trait of someone who has had to struggle for survival for a long time. Is your W like this?
What efforts are you making to show her "good faith"? Not just rewarding her for efforts that you deem good enought but unprompted efforts? The kitchen is one you have mentioned and I'm glad you are making that effort. What else?
You really need to read my sitch a little more before spouting off. I don’t think you got one single thing right.
So what you are trying to say is that you are trying to strip your wife of all power?
Where did I ever say this?
So is that the reason for taking her name off bank accounts?
Spending above our means to the extent that credit card debt was growing each year faster than I could pay it.
And taking her name off the vehicle title?
Her name was never on the vehicle my mom gave me since it was a gift and separate property. The other cars are community property.
Also not letting her name be on the property?
Don’t know what you are talking about her. The house is community property. Title in her name cannot be revoked without her consent. A portion of the down payment is separate property. The rest is community property.
I think you are mentally preparing for divorce. You proved that mentality once again when you stated you let your kitchen be an embarassment because in other words you'd be danged then to put any money into the house if she was going to divorce you.
I have already been prepared for divorce. Not putting money into the house makes financial sense.
I think her having that retainer fee has really scared you. The only way you know how to fight back is to show your butt.
The retainer does not scare me. I put up my own retainer too, though almost all of that has been used.
I also find it interesting that you haven't mentioned what you love about your wife? Or what good qualities does your wife have? You haven't even stated I don't believe ever that you love your wife.
No, I never said I love her. We are not to that point yet. I think it will come.
She may not be about power. She may just not want to be intimate with you or get close to you. Your actions have been harsh and probably really pushed her away.
My actions have been harsh, but for good reason. I think she does want to be intimate and get close, but it scares her too much to do so.
Just for the record because this seems like the harshest thing you have done to her but could you clarify why you put her in jail that night? How long did she have to stay in jail?
I called the cops because she assaulted me. She stayed over night. It is not the first time she has been physical either. It drew the line. She crossed it. And guess what, she has shown no tendency to go that far since. She is perfectly capable of holding onto herself and arguing in a civil way, if she wants to. This includes not shutting down, running, distancing, which are also forms of emotional abuse and attempts at control.
Cally, you will not move forward as long as you keep seeing things through your filters. This is what I have been telling you regarding your sitch. You are getting all riled up because you do not understand how my sitch could make sense in your world. That is your biggest downfall, IMO.
I am doing what I think best in regards to how I can best understand my wife and her view of the world. Normally this would mean she come to her own conclusions. But she is stuck in a spot that does not let her move forward or backward. That makes it my issue because I do not want to stay in that stuck spot.
I think you have a good bead on my W. I know we need to do more things together to build up the goodwill, but she has a very hard time doing this. Throw the martyrdom aspect into the mix. Now you’ve got someone who wants attention, is too scared to venture forth to get what she wants, and then does not feel she deserves it, but would rather do as much as she can for the kids. She really feels needed when she is smothering them. It is very hard to overcome this when they are small and needy. Now that they are older, they are actually pushing her back so they can get some breathing room. The counselor is also telling them to do this (mainly the girls. S9 is still too young for this.)
She can have a good level of good will built up and turn into a cornered animal at the next instant. I’ve seen her do this to me and everyone on my side of the family. That is why I do not take her with me to visit my family and tell them all not to call me on the house phone, just on my cell phone. That created too many opportunities for fights in the past. So yes, she has operated in survival mode. But she is slowly coming out of her shell.
I think my working on the kitchen is helping. When I started the project a few weeks ago, she commented on how nice it was going to look and that she actually liked me. That is about as emotionally open as she gets, but I read it for what is underneath. I would like to do more together, like a date night. We did this years ago but she was too worried about the kids for it to be productive. We need to build more common interests to bond us.
So she attacks you looking for a so-called apology and you attack her back looking for a so-called marriage commitment and that's good..that's forcing her into the crucible? Man, I'm just not seeing that! I promise you that I am not coming after you out of orneryness, I am honestly wanting you to continue with your momentum. And I think that being a man of steel against HER attacks is the way to go, but I don't see any need for attacks of your own. It weakens you in her eyes because she knows that she has you riled up enough that you 'go there'. When my H is calm and in control and absolutely firm in his convictions, but also (strangely enough) loving at the same time, I fall in line like a scared army recruit. It's weird. When he gets at all attacking, I get a strange urge to eat him for lunch and not in a fun way either.
I don't think you are addressing your own issues of resentment as much as you are over focusing on her crap. Perhaps you can take a breather from what she's doing/thinking/processing and concentrate on Cobra for a while. Hold on to yourself and do not engage when she tries to get you to do that and THIS will force her into the crucible. If you have to attack her to get her there, it's just more fusion, kwim?
I don’t understand why you see this as an attack at all. I am not attacking. I said she needs to decide to commit to the marriage or not. I won’t stay in a marriage when she has one foot out the door. That is not an attack, it is a simple boundary. The choice is entirely up to her. I sweeten the deal to help her make a choice for the marriage that much more enticing, but I do not need to do that at all. I choose to meet her demands for financial gifts, but I don’t have to do so on her terms. It is a simple choice for me. I can meet her wish or not. She set a boundary. I have elected a compromise instead, conditional on my demands. Neither of us is required to choose. We can both stay stuck. It’s just that if she chooses not to budge, to keep one foot out the door, at some point I will walk out.
I can’t see how setting a boundary and holding to it weakens me in her eyes. I think the opposite is true. I think that in this case, I too am calm and in control and absolutely firm in my convictions. Not engaging with her is not going to force her into the crucible. You miss my earlier point that she does NOT recognize the need to respect any authority other than her own. My wishes and desires do not count. If she thinks she needs to do something, she will do so regardless of how I feel. She has done this so many times in the past I can’t even count them. The problem has always been that I do not set a boundary. If it weren’t for the kids, my leaving the marriage would not phase her in the slightest. How do you think my holding on to myself will cause such an awakening in her to change that?
I don't know in the world you can read your posts and come to the conclusion that you are working on your marriage. I can honestly see how she could not want to get close to you. The more you post the more clearer it becomes. You really need to focus more on you and not on your wife.
First off let me say that after many years of marriage you can't even say you love her. Do you honestly think she doesn't feel this? I mean come on! I can't recall how many years now you have been married but can confidently say it is over 10 years. 10 years of being with someone, living with someone, making love to someone and watching them bring life to your children and raising them with love. And you can't say you love her. Why in the world are you there. I guess it is safe to say you don't make love to your wife. She is there for sex yes. But when you love someone you make love. Then you wonder why you were in a SSM. I wouldn't want to have sex with my husband if he couldn't even say he loved me. Sure I understand you may have not been in love when you first married and she was pregnant. But come on many years later.
There is not anything nice you can even say about her. In fact yet another attack to her is you tell your family not to call the house phone even? Or don't go on any family get togethers with her? First off that is sick behavior for your children to witness. Also a pretty big blow to her ego that you bad mouth to your family. She is basically thrown out of your life. Then you say she is avoiding you.
Another thing is I know in my marriage and any other marriage that I know which is quite a few none of go this is only mine. My husbands parents gave us a car. Ya know what they were ours. My parents gave us a car they were ours. If they were to give us some property it would be ours. If they helped us with a down payment the house would be ours. My husband would never have said ummmmm sorry honey but only 165,000 of the house is ours. My down payment of 5,000 is only mine. She has all these personal attacks you throw at her and I have never seen you post that she does this. You have just said her family was poor and it isn't your responsibilty that her family is that way. You have a real messed up sense of what marriage is about. I would be so hurt if my husband alienated me so much from everything. Because that behavior is so foreign to me. It is selfish and stingy. Marriage is sharing and loving.
I also have seen you post on here on a negative side about her mothering skills. Yet you have mentioned your children do well in school and she was a SAHM. Did you ever give her credit for that. Let me tell you there could be a hell of a lot worse things then smothering your children to much. She is a good mom these days to smoether and be involved. I am very very involved in my childrens lives. And guess what my daughter of 16 years old thanks me for it. There is a mother I know that is on welfare for medical but yet deals drugs with presription drugs she gets for free on welfare. She screws all kinds of low life men and has drug addicts in her house all the time. I mean what a crappy mom and role model for her children. So you should be thankful and give her a little credit for being a good mom. Don't down her and think negative things about everything and anything she does. I do believe she is a highly intelligent woman with a lot of education. So maybe the few things she may worry about with your children is warranted. She has the education to back up that knowledge while you don't. I am almost positve you mentioned she was in school for physchology.
No I don't see how your sitch could make sense in my world you are right. But I don't see how any woman could stand to be attacked so much and want to be intimate with that kind of man. Let alone want to get close to a man that doesn't even love me. I would want to go find true love. Maybe that is at the point she is at now. Like some of us are trying to decide if we can stay in a SSM. Maybe she is deciding if she can be in love starved marriage. And if that is the only kind of marriage she wants for her children to be able to witness. Maybe she is worried about the childrens FOO they will have. So maybe stop trying to analyze what issues she has waaaaay in the past. And start realizing what she may be thinking about your marriage in the now. Me and my husband may have our issues. We although have been making progress. But one thing I can say I am proud of is that they have seen us say I love you so many times. That is important for children to see. I just feel so sorry for your children to witness to all these power plays. I mean come on at a young age they are already in counseling. Maybe enough is enough with the two of you.
I am not trying to jump on you. Just trying to give you a little insite from a different look at things. And tell you that I think you are obsessed with what she does and what she thinks. Focus and work on you.
I just have to add one more thing because this seems to be a huge wedge between you and your wife. And an issue you seem to focus on a lot. But I do know of a divorce that happened and the husband was given like 100,000 from his parents as a gift as his parents has won the lottery. They divorced and the wife got half. I know of another divorce that happened and the wife had inherited her parents house. This couple split up and she fought this tooth and nail as her husband was a real jerk and had her name off everything they owned practically. Everything was split 50/50 which meant she had to see the house that was precious to her. And he had to give up the 50 percent he was trying to hide and keep away.
So why keep putting the wedge between you and having the mentality of what's mine is mine.
cally, have you read cobra's original posts? He and his wife did not start out "in love." His story is quite different from the other situations on this board. That's why stuff that applies to marriages where the partners love each other, or did at one time, don't quite apply to him. You're criticizing him because he won't say he loves her, but he has never claimed to love her. I don't think they have ever claimed to love each other. I think you would be surprised if you familiarized yourself with his sitch.
