Since I've been online with you guys today I thought I'd take the time just to post an update. It's not like I've been gone a terribly long time, just a couple of weeks....but hey, I missed ya'll!
Mr. GEL and I are doing pretty well. Unfortunately there hasn't been much bedroom action the last few weeks, but for once....there's some honest to goodness viable reasons behind it. That being....my H recently had some tests & x-rays run (he'd been having back pain that I wasn't fully aware of)...it appears he may have some bone degeneration in his spine. Right now we're trying to find out how bad it is, and our next course of action for fixing/treating it. Needless to say...this has him very worried.
On top of that....a week ago this past Saturday I had him in the emergency room to find out that my hubby is trying to pass a 3mm kidney stone (still hasn't passed the darned thing). So....he's honestly not feeling very well.
BUT I'm glad to report the EC is still there....and we're still trudging onward....and celebrated our anniversary last week. In addition, I've had no other reasons to suspect that he's doing anything inappropriate anymore either...his nose is staying clean in that aspect.
GEL: Having just met you here, I have only seen a little bit of your journey. Though, your progress really is inspirational. Thank you for sharing it. Hopefully, the health issues will pass soon. In the mean time, congrats!
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. -- Socrates
GEL- Sounds like things are still going well for you. That's great! I wanted to ask you a question in response to the post that you made on Brian's thread regarding "acceptance". You indicate that you've come to accept that your H just isn't a sexually Alpha kind of male and that is okay with you because you love so many other things about him. My question is - Why is it necessary for your H to "be" an alpha male in order to exhibit the kind of alpha male type behavior that you might enjoy sexually? For instance, why is requesting assertive or aggressive initiation from your H any different from requesting that he touch your breasts in a certain way that you enjoy? I mean isn't the sexual part of you that wants to be approached in an Alpha way just as valid as the sexual part of you that is assertive and able to initiate freely?
What if you were married to a man who mostly initiated Alpha style and that is what you were comfortable with. What if this man came to you and said "GEL, most of the time I do have the urge and enjoy aggressively initiating sex with you but I think it would be really hot if maybe every third encounter you were the one to approach me in an assertive way and initiate.". What would your reaction be? Would you say "I'm sorry but that's just not who I am sexually." or would you try to see if you could expand your horizons sexually in order to fulfill your H's desire? Why shouldn't we ask the same of our not-so-Alpha husbands?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Why shouldn't we ask the same of our not-so-Alpha husbands?
We CAN ask this. We DO ask it. And we recognize that we can ask til we're blue in the face, but if they WILL NOT do it, then there is NOTHING we can do about that except 1) continue trying, 2) get okay with the way they are, 3) leave.
Option 2, "getting okay," as GEL pointed out, sometimes has the effect of giving the other person the space to change. When we continually ask someone to change something, the implication is that there is something wrong with the way they are, and that makes them dig their heels in. It probably shouldn't, but it does. In someone who's really mature and enlightened, maybe it wouldn't.
When someone feels that we are looking at them and all we can see is how wrong they are, they won't want to change. After all your H looks at you and thinks that YOU are oversexed. Has that made a light bulb go on over your head with the thought, "He's right. That's something unhealthy about myself that I need to change." No.
So your telling him that he is not man enough to satisfy you (and that is how your HD comes across to him, right or wrong), does NOT make him want to change himself.
Option 2, total acceptance, MAY give him room to change. It may not make any difference.
If he refuses to respond to your reasonable request (and I believe your requests are very reasonable), then you do have to ask yourself if this is someone you want to be with. I personally do not see any other option, except to go nuts.
I guess for me that's fairly easy to answer. I want to be who I am naturally right? I’m sure you do too….we all just want to be who we are (it’s just that the majority of us on this BB are HD in the R). Well, so does my H. The man he is just simply is not naturally an Alpha type of personality and it's not fair of me to ask him to be something he simply isn't. From what I've learned about his past...it's just not him, he's never been that way...so why should he have to become something he never was just because it's what I would like? I married him as he is, not as I want him to be.
Asking him to exhibit behaviors that are not natural to him would be like asking me to be a really loud, outgoing type of person who is always the center of attention in a crowd of people…that would give me a panicky feeling. It's just not me. You guys might not believe it on here....but I'm naturally a very quiet person....I don't mix well at parties, I tend to stay to the outside of the crowd and observe, I'm not a big socializer. I have a very definite shy side. I’ve always had a very sexual side to my personality there was just a period of time I was uncomfortable showing it. My H…isn’t a sexual person. Yes he enjoys sex…but exhibiting assertive behaviors to get it is not natural to his personality. Out of the two of us though, I have the dominant personality.
Now...if someone came to me (take my personality example) and said....every 3rd time we go out I want you to behave like this (wear something really bright so no one will miss you, be loud, be funny, be really outgoing, and stand right in the middle of everything)...I would panic, I’d feel pressured to be that way, and me...being who I am, an introvert....would find myself shrinking into the corner because I so very much hate to be the center of attention. It would be very tough for me to force myself to do that, I would feel very self conscious, and very inadequate trying to do that.
That's no different for my H. IMPO many Alpha behaviors go against my H's personality (therefore he's not comfortable doing them and they feel false to him). So for my H, should I go to him and say "Ok, every 3rd time I want you to assertively initiate sex with me...he will shrink from that pressure." That's exactly what he had been doing with me for several years Mojo. If he were an alpha male he'd do those things naturally but he's not. So for him he would have the pressure on him to do xyz (that's already uncomfortable) and then have the pressure of doing it well enough to make me happy with it (performance anxiety if you will.)
The freedom (I think) he's experiencing now from this true acceptance of him is that now he feels I'm truly happy with HIM, the real him…just as he is, so the pressure is off to HAVE to do xyz just to make me happy. I don't know that I can explain why this is either, but now the feeling between us are much easier, relaxed, more giving....and NOW he's doing some things that he didn't do before (things I had asked of him to be honest). Before I don't think he did these things though because of the pressure he felt of not being good enough, not accepted (he felt if he tried something before it wouldn't be good enough anyway...so why try?) Now the things he does do, or tries to do, aren't typically alpha behavior they are more subdued, but these things are a definite improvement over what he had been doing...which was very little....and he's starting to experiment more too. Another benefit is that he's doing much more to speak MY love language to me....which really fosters the EC. He's spending more time with me (I'm a QT person). He's doing more WITH me instead of on his own or on the computer....we are taking on more projects together....stuff like that.
The thing I find interesting though is that…I’ve never come out and said anything about the fact that now I accept him just as he is. I just did it…never communicated that to him, and the changes are happening. The only thing I truly communicated to him was that I was going to stop hiding a side of myself that was a big part of who I am (my sexual side). I’m sure though that somehow some of my other behaviors must have changed towards him too in ways I’m unaware of as a result of doing both things.
What I will tell you though is that with this newfound acceptance....he IS beginning to experiment with some behaviors because he doesn't feel the pressure of being good enough, he feels the freedom to do it HIS way. He IS beginning to try a few things (like being more assertive about a position during sex (generally non-verbally), or talking dirty to see what he's comfortable saying)...stuff like that. It even rolls over to some just flirty behavior on the phone with me or at home in the kitchen.
He's most likely NEVER going to exhibit those Alpha Male traits that I do appreciate in many of the men on this BB....but I'm learning that there are many things he can do, that I appreciate just as much...but they are in his own way in his own style.
Great answer. I actually agree with 90% of what you're saying. Here is the 10% I don't agree with- (LOL)- Take your personality example. I always considered myself to be a sort of bookish, laid-back type of person. I once interviewed for a job as an inventory manager at a large bookstore. I was offered a job as a human resource manager instead because they had already filled the inventory position. I really had no idea what this entailed and suddenly found myself interviewing hundreds of people and giving morale boosting talks to groups of employees and many other activities which I never would have considered purposefully choosing to do or succeed at doing. The amazing thing is that I discovered I was actually very good at this job and I consider it one of the lucky breaks of my life that I fell into it because I am now very comfortable in a lot of career and life situations that I might never have attempted otherwise. So........what if I offered you $50 to come to my party and wear bright clothes and tell jokes in the center of the crowd? What if I offered you $5000? $5,000,000? People can change and often their self-esteem will improve if they do change if the change offers them more options in life but sometimes they just need adequate motivation.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
That is so true Mojo! I remember when I was first offered the teaching job. I was really scared because I had always had a fear of public speaking. But once I did it, I realized I was pretty good at it and that really did help my self-esteem. So yes, sometimes we make assumptions about what we can and can't do, who we are, and who we are not. Then, when we push ourselves, we realize it's not so bad afterall. I think taking the leap is probably the hardest part. And maybe it is that way for our S. They fear being out of their comfort zone so much that they just don't try sometimes.
I guess maybe what I'm trying to say is that we can't make our partners change but we should do what we can to help them grow even if this is scary because it necessitates growth in ourselves. We should accept them for who they are at this point in time because that is only rational but realize that we might limit their opportunities for change by rushing too soon into our own comfort zones. We need to ask ourselves if what attracts us to a man who mostly acts Beta is really healthy.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
