Jen- I'm sure the following comments are things you already know but here goes anyway: In many ways my wife is strong, a "doer" and has a "let's get it done" approach whereas I am a "thinker" a "planner" and often a procrastinator. I get distracted and can turn simple tasks into projects. Where "good enough" will do, I often seek unatainable perfection.
Much of this stems from being the "first born," growing up in a home with a "functioning" alcoholic father (who was also an adulterer). So, label me a "pleaser" someone who doesn't want to "rock the boat." (so how is that for biblical accuracy, the sins of the father are passed onto his children- my wife was the one who had the PA).
My W grew up with a dad who did not express his love at all, was selfish and a grouch whereas W's mom was an emotional screamer etc (my MIL changed when she went through menopause and is about as good a MIL one could hope for). W got pregnant at 18, lived with her parents but paid her own way, raised her son alone until we got married 11 years agos when SS was 8 (my step-son's father was abusive and she cut him off at around the time SS was born). She worked part-time, got her AA from a community college and became a legal secretary well before we started dating.
Now that you've got a picture. For many years, I "let" W be strong and self-willed for the family because it was the least confrontational path. However, this built up so much anger in me because for most males, it can be esmasculating to defer to one's spouse depending on HOW the decisions discussed and eventually made. She was angry as well because she wanted to be protected and nurtured rather than have the lead role- yet her strong willed side also wanted things to be done her way. (what a mess)
My W and I grown considerably where we have recognized much of this and have learned to communicate through many of these issues. It is an ongoing process filled with many enlightening moments, and it is never dull.
I could be TOTALLY wrong but I am guessing that your H doesn't follow through on some of his responsibilities to your level of satisfaction and it is likely a pattern you two have grown to accept even though neither of you likes it. He knows you are going to be disappointed and it likely bothers him more than you know. You resent it and maybe even think he does it on purpose. Way off base? (If I am, at least this is good to get it off of my chest )
What W and I have done is we have discussed this. I have told her it is a male NEED to be admired and "built up" by our spouses. I need the encouragement and "you can do it" from my wife. From time to time she will tell me, "I doubt you'll do it or complete it" and I have to stop her and tell her she's being negative and non supportive and to give me the benefit of the doubt. Other times, she does give me the encouragement or admiration I am seeking.
All I want is for her to recognize her contribution in these scenarios and to try to change her perception or responses. When she doesn't I try to ignore her comments and recognizing that she "playing a tape... or following a script" based on our past experiences and "the past does not equal the future" (To use a Tony Robbins phrase).
Your H may not choose to change but what will it hurt to "ask" him for help, let him know you "need" his leadership. You may need to bite your tongue a few times when you want to jump in and move him along faster or get him in sync with your time table but see this as an experiment- you do have the rest of your lives to create some new patterns, don't you? Give H recognition without being patronizing when you do see some minor improvements. It still remains true, "it is not what you say, but how you say it," doesn't it?
Again, this is all amatuer speculation on my part, but who knows it may be helpful to you or someone else. C2H
[This message has been edited by Committed2Him (edited 08-28-2001).]
Committed2Him- "C2H" All Things (Back from Spain!)...18
Have you been eavesdroping on the convos in my house? I can't believe how right on target you are! It is incredibly valuable to get a male perspective on the dynamic I brought up,previously. I know what you are saying is so true and my tendency to take the lead,is something my H probably does resent. I avoided doing it while I was DBing, so actively, and I am sure that was a major contributing factor in my H's desire to reconcile.
However,I have been stressed out to the max with my son's situ and impatient to "get things going"...so, I do jump right in with the kids,resenting my H for his seeming passivity. He and I have very different parenting styles which is a problem. His "hands off" style infuriates me and I interpret it has a lack of support.It certainly is not very effective when it comes to dealing with adolescent boys,specially when one has ADD. They need limits and structure, which my H just seems to want no part of...so I am the key figure, which most likely puts me back in to that "controlling" category.What's most important- my marriage or my children?
Have a good evening! From one adult,child(first born)of a "functional alcoholic", to another...Jenny
quote:What's most important- my marriage or my children?
Aren't both in the "extremely important category?"
In the past, when my wife was impatient about something, I would just defer to her, which upset us both. Now, when I choose to defer to her, I try to recognize that I am making a choice to do so instead of just feeling overruled (and then angry). If things do not go the way we would like them to, I try to let it go.
Increasingly, W will restrain herself from "taking over" in some area whereas in the past she would just take over and then be mad about it. Now, she will seek and ask for my help. I think she is getting better at not assuming I already know (or should know) about the issue she is concerned about, she's giving me the benefit of the doubt. She recognizes my "progress" and I recognize hers.
I think she has come to a point where she asks herself, "how really important is this thing?" If it is not really important in comparison to improving our relationship she'll let it go far longer than she use to. If it is really important (like your situation with an ADD child) she'll deal with it if I don't and I appreciate that about her.
Thinking about your situation and mine, I really use to FUME when I would undertake something and do it a certain way only to have my wife become critical because it wasn't done the exact way she wanted it or in the time frame she expected. Was/is there a subconscious rebellion going on? Passive/aggressive behavior, probably. Was there deliberate undermining going on my part? No, but when the relationship started to wobble and got worse, I am pretty sure she assumes my behaviors were calculated deliberate attempts to infuriate her (now how smart would that be? What man wants an irate wife?) I am reminded of a couple of my favorite verses from the bible: Proverbs 21 verses 9 and 19
quote:"Better to dwell in a corner of a housetop, than in a house shared with a contentious woman." And "Better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and angry woman."
As simple as it seems you may just want to share with him how stressed out you are re your son and ask him for his input and help.
"What are YOU going to do about, son? Do you see what is happening with him. Can you imagine what will happen if we don't (control this situation) do something now?" verses
"What should we do about son? I am worried about him. What do you think our options are? I am afraid of what this might lead to for son?"
Again, more speculation on my part, just scratchin my head trying to offer some encouragement. Do what works? C2H
Committed2Him- "C2H" All Things (Back from Spain!)...18
C2H, I must tell you again how much I appreciate your taking the time to "walk me through this". I have been trying to think things through prior to speaking. I am very good at this until it comes to the children,when I get frustrated and anxious.He tells me that I can handle the ADD issue,better than he can, because of my professional abilities. He resents having to talk to teachers,counselor's or doctors and really doesn't act on any advice we are given. I don't mind handling things,but when he keeps quiet and refuses to actively support me in what I am trying to do,I feel sabotaged. We are going away for the weeknd (all of us) and I hope to be able to talk to him about some of this. Since, we don't have to deal with school over the next three days,perhaps things will calm down a bit. My H is a brilliant lawyer and was at the top of his class throughout school. He cannot relate to the problems our children are having... as things came so easily for him. Thanks again for sharing your insight...Jenny
PS The Biblical quotes seemed a tad sexist, but I am sure there are a few about "husbands"...
Regarding husbands and biblical references, yep plenty of stuff there to put us guys in our place. One thing I was reminded of is the part that instructs husbands to, "dwell with the wife of your youth with understanding:" Your H is NOT doing this, he is brilliant, can fully grasp and process the information you logically provide him regarding disciplining adolescents which I assume you have already tried to do. If he were "understanding" the stress you are under, then you two could agree to let H take the lead with the boys as I think it should be. He could logically apply discipline, and establish boundaries. I believe it is easier for a father to detach from the emotion of discipline, especially with adolescent boys.
Boys will always try to manipulate and test their parents but even more so, their mothers. I do agree that H is taking the easy way out and I can only speculate that he is doing this because he has found that this "works" for him. Maybe past attempts to get involved may have resulted in conflict, possibly because of your disapproving of his methods ("different parenting styles?"). H might have resented your scrutiny (because he knows he is brilliant,) finally coming to the decision that he is going to take a "hands off" approach.
I think all you can do is try to appeal to his "maleness" and let him know that you really need (key word) his help with this situation. It might help to use third party materials to underscore the importance of having a father figure who is instrumental in the disciplining adolescent boys. If you say it, he'll doubt it but if someone else says it, "it must be true." Truly a challenge, just think you have to "pick, your battles." C2H
[This message has been edited by Committed2Him (edited 08-30-2001).]
Committed2Him- "C2H" All Things (Back from Spain!)...18
Thanks again for sharing your marvelous perspective on things.(Have you ever thought of being a counselor,yourself)
I am sure you are mystified as to why a Phi Beta Kappa, Mensa eligible individual just "doesn't get" when it comes to his children. IQ level and "Emotional Intelligence"(in fact there is an excellent book on this topic) are often in disparity. My H was raised, predominately, by a domineering woman.... as his father worked 24/7, running a small business, and never took part in the tough part of parenting..just the fun stuff,when he could. They had a "peer relationship" and that is exactly what my H has duplicated in our family. There was an absence of affection with intelligence and academic performance valued above all else. Have a wonderful holiday weekend! PS. By "appealing to his maleness", I got him to oversee the boys'packing/suitcases for our trip today. Usually,I am stuck with that chore and it turns into a battle.
I am sure you did but remember to thank H whenever he makes some progress and helps you. Again, we guys desire to be admired and those words of appreciation (even if is somthing we should be doing anyway) mean a lot.
Even as far as we both have come, I just had my own little set back last night and this morning. Some time ago I would have felt like a lot of progress was undone. Now, I just know I need to let W cool off. When the time is right, I will let her know I really do hear what she is saying about the underlying issue that is bothering her. I then need to make a concerted effort regarding time management and then let her see the changes. Take care! C2H
Committed2Him- "C2H" All Things (Back from Spain!)...18
We took off to New England for the wkend...great weather and beautiful views.However, a "family vacation" is a tad stressful when two of the family members are adolescent boys who's interests', hardly include sight seeing. Girls,Malls,CD's are the focus, rather than enjoying the change of scenery and time with Mom and Dad.
I tried to stay on course,but had a couple of "blow ups" myself over the wkend,C2H. I let my H have it a few times and then regretted it later.(However, he does provoke me)
Fatigue is my worse enemy when it comes to good DBing.I really have to learn to keep quiet when I am stressed out and exhausted. However,restraint is hard to muster under trying conditions.
We got in last evening and getting the kids ready for school today...washing uniforms and of course last minute homework added to a very long day.
Time Mgt??? A nice concept,but difficult at times. I returned to work today and found my hectic day with acutely ill psychiatric patients, a respite from my homelife and certainly a reminder of how minor my troubles really are compared to theirs.
Jenny, I couldn't resist busting in on your great dialogue with C2H, but I just wanted to say congrats on returning to work. I think you will probably find that with work occupying your thoughts, and renewed satisfaction and esteem from that great sense of accomplishment, your h's foibles will cause less frustration. I know it certainly works for me.
There have been other things you and C2H have talked about that I wanted to comment on, but am pressed for time so will save for it later when I can communicate at a less frantic pace.
Alex,thanks for dropping by. I know you can add alot to this discussion as you are reconciled and trying to keep things on a positive course,yourself.Frankly,I don't know how you manage so well with a career and "little ones" at home.
I have decided to work about 20hrs a wk and see how that goes,for now.I am reluctant to pull out completely as I do get so much out of it.My anxiety level is high, though, with school having started and my concerns about son "making it", ever present.We'll see...
C2H...I am sure you've smoothed things out with your wife, by now. Perhaps she feels overwhemed with resposibilities periodically, as I do. Does she share your spiritual values? If so,it must make for a common ground and stronger bond. My H is not at all religious and undeveloped... spiritually. We are pretty well polarized in that most important area. It saddens me and makes the religious upbringing of our boys my"my job". I've been doing my best since day one.
)
C2H 
