Certainly... A system is the family group:H/W and childen.In most of the cases on this board,I would venture to say there has been some degree of dysfunction which is acted out in various family members.
By shakey...I mean that there is "dischord" with the family unit,perhaps more intolerable to some than to others.Example...difficulties with children and childraising issues,career difficulties,role changes etc.,lack of attention to spouses,etc. It may be overwhelming and difficult to pinpoint what the real problem is,but some sort of CHANGE is desired...here comes the quest for a divorce..to get away. When one person is the system "gets well" or changes in a positive way it causes others in the family to change,too.(DBing philsophy)
I believe that often the person that appears to be the "sickest"(MLC or whatever)is a symptom of other problems in family or relationship.Some of us our stronger and more persistent in holding thing things together during uncomfortable periods,while others have a lower threshold for discomfort. Just a few thoughts...
I agree, it's all about larger issues, but when one spouse or the other will not address the underlying issue, you really have to apply those DB principles.
One spouse chooses to 'run away' from it with the thinking that if I ignore it, do not address it, it will go away and at a minimum-be a non-issue for me.
While (as 17B says) that in turn, causes an almost knee-jerk reaction in the other spouse to hold on and cling. Which of course, as we all know, does not work.
I like to call that one escapism. I sometimes think my H compares to Houdini! I'm not sure if I would classify it as apathy exactly, but plain and simple ol'running out.
Sure would like to understand what/why that need is felt, MLC/disinterest in marriage, or maybe simply because it's easier(?)...NOT knowing reasons for this discontent tends to 'force' the left-behind spouse to look to themselves to blame. At least in my case-when there is no reason given, it MUST be because of me, right? Rationally I know that is not true. However, my emotional-self struggles.
Me2- I think the "betrayed" spouse will always want to know "why" and "what did I do wrong, what's wrong with me etc". I think the beauty of SBT and other approaches that come to mind (approaches I have read by Phil McGraw and, of all people, Tony Robbins) is that "changing" something (changing anything) triggers different responses than the normal conditioned response from the WAS/MLCer. For me, gettting to the point where my W moved away from strongly desiring divorce towards "piecing our marriage back together," has provided me with the opportunity to continue to work on issues. Communication, expectations, conflict resolution, etc, etc.
Everybody has quirks, "issues" imperfections etc. that we began to develop from birth. My wife, me, you, your H, EVERYBODY. So who's fault is it really? Even if you could determine a percentage of blame, 60/40 70/30, the bottom line is you still need to move forward from wherever you presently are and it is a continuing process.
Over time, we discover how our behavior and actions contributed to our spouses actions but time is better spent working on our future actions and behaviors than beating ourselves up for the past.
DBing is exciting because we can continue to examine our human interaction with our spouses (and others) and apply the principles to live a more rewarding, less frustrating life when it comes to human interaction and conflict resolution. Or I could be completely wrong Take care of yourself. C2H
Committed2Him- "C2H" All Things (Back from Spain!)...18
C2H..you make some very good points and effectiviely point out the rational behind the "DB" approach.
Question...In my case, my positve changes(the ones that pulled my spouse back in to the "system") have proven to be detrimental to my children,especially for my teenager.
My time away from home, spent on restarting my career,afforded him opportuniites to act out and to fail academically.Even though I had arranged my schedule to pick him up from school,go to athletic events,etc.
In fact,he has created enough problems,to make it necessary for me to take a leave of absence to devote almost undivided attention to his needs through the end of this semester.It appears that he liked having a stay at home mom,who was very active in his school life etc.(even though H lost respect for me) At this point, I am wondering if spouse is going to start having old issues revisiting his psyche.I am literally torn between the two "causes" and of course,since this a time of crisis for son,primarily,my energies are directed at solving his particular problems.
I "changed" thus-the family system changed-which effected various family members differently.In other words..I saved my marriage and in the process put son in jeopardy.It seems that my years of providing structure and close supervision on the "homefront" were actually helping son to manage what has turned out to be a significant ADD problem.Son presents well and is talented and personable,so ADD was overlooked or pehaps we were in denial.
So... I am conflicted as to how to best handle the "men" in my life (H and two sons) while at the same time feeling terrified that my DB success is being tested to the limit.
Any advice for me....would be appreciated. Thanks... JB
Jenny, I couldn't resist answering your call! That's a switch, since you are always the one that others lean on, including me. Maybe you can ask yourself a few questions. Such as: how did son do when H was picking up some of the slack? How does H do when you appeal to him to help out with challenges, as in I need your strength/wisdom/help in dealing with this? Does your leave of absence mean that you have to do away entirely with having some time to yourself, as in leisure time? Can you act as if your son is now your next "project" (I know bad choice of words, but you might see what I mean).
I've never dealt with ADD myself, though I do see some potential for it in my own son, now 8. Now that my h and I are doing better, he seems to be pouting/sulking/demanding more time, in spite of the fact that for the past two years I have been in some ways a bit of a ghost mom (mentally, not physically). Is it at all possible that your s is "creating" conflict where there's a vacuum, and if so, how does a professional such as yourself deal with that? Can you effect a seesaw/balance with your s, as in DB, so that you are doing less (or more) of one thing while he does the reverse? It sounds to me like you are the mom who rushes in to fix and save (like most of us here, to tell the truth); can you do a 180 and (while still on your leave of absence) do nothing? Sit back and watch? (Sorry, since I don't know the particulars, I can't give specific suggestions.) Is it at all possible there's a bit of a testosterone power struggle going on over your attention? Maybe h's dissatisfaction had to do with your attention on sons, and now maybe son is acting out your attention on h. Maybe you need to leave for a week (possibly take other son?) and let the two boys deal with each other? Is it possible you could send them on an outward bound thing together? Or a camping/fishing whatever trip together? Maybe they need to bond more closely, and so break some of the hold they have on you. Just my two cents.
Thanks for taking the time to give your impression and I appreciate your suggestions.
I do think that an Outward Bound Program would be wonderful for my son over the summer break and if he doesn't wind up totally immersed in summer school,that is definitely something I plan to pursue.
Yes, I did have to "rush in" and "rescue",but really had no other choice other than to allow son to stay at home w/o supervision.It's taken time,effort and $$$ to set up his last month of classes along with psychotherapy here at home, as he is not welcome on campus at this point.I am exhausted as this has been a 24/7 process.
H is helping out today and I am insisitng that he take over some hours on the weekends,so that I can take a break.Hopefully, this level of intensity will only continue through the next 3-4 weeks.It's tough on every one,except son who claims he's happier than he's been a while and definitely learning more.
O f course,I am racked with guilt and feel resentment toward spouse over what has "spun out of control" with the children.
Re psycho dynamics:I really did rely on my son during a difficult marital period and perhaps he feels he has been replaced on some level.Lots of other stuff is probably going on,too.But, basically, we have a very talented boy,with an untreated ADD condition, who suddenly experiences family instability and puberty simulataneously while attending a new school.He does some very stupid things and winds up with a "bad rep" over night. ADD is characterized by high risk impulsive behavior in many teenage boys,so it presents it's own set of issues....What a mess!
Meanwhile,my H is scholar who has always been an outstanding student.This latest crisis is hurting H's self esteem and he really can't relate to our son's problems.
Hi again, jenny! Would it help if you sat down and listed all your goals both for son and h? As you know this is something that Michele advises. I don't know if you ever listened to the KLA tapes, but they're really very good. Maybe you could hop over to that forum and brush up on goal-setting and goal-accomplishing. it's a reminder I need to give myself all the time.
I am also going through a tough time, mainly to do with trust issues, and a sense of my own lost soul as I've heard you and others whisper about here. As you know my h has made several turnarounds and then slipped back, and that is probably due to my slipping as well. I am so fearful of sliding again, in fact I refuse to go back there, so much so that I am very very wary and probably am not regarding his changes with any trust at all. I find I need reassurances that he means what he has said, because of the history of giving and taking it all back again. I have also heard nothing that sounds like he thinks he was at fault at all for the ingredients in our marriage that led to the breakdown. He continuously rationalises all his behaviour, from the nastiness and coldness to me, to the sneaking and lying, on his feelings that he didn't want to be married. The best I've heard of why he's decided to stay was because of the kids and then he eventually he realized it wasn't so horrible here after all. In order to heal from all that damage, I need to hear more, and see more,Jenny. Maybe I'm expecting too much, and this is a man who is wholly incapable of giving more. But it just leaves my soul feeling dry as dust. Any insights?
Jenny, asked a friend to check in on this board (SJT) because she has had some challenges with her son and her H, there might be some help (from experience) you can give each other.
As for my thoughts, I can share how I have been trying to address my challenges. I have prioritized my situation this way: 1) Me- meaning my spiritual walk with my God and my mental health. 2) My wife- working on OR issues, communication, relational etc. 3) My kids- self-explanatory 4) My career.
As for son, H needs to be challenged to help solve the situation together, ADD is not something that is someone's fault. I agree, Alex made some great observations but also think you should actively bring H into the goal setting you do for son. Encourage H to lead and come to a plan you both can live with including how your career might be put back on track.
A male ego is a strange thing, the more we can feel our input is wanted and valued, especially by our spouse, the more empowered we feel. It's the way we are wired and a wise woman uses this for the betterment of the family and the marriage. Hope this helps some. C2H
Committed2Him- "C2H" All Things (Back from Spain!)...18
Alex and C2H, Thank you for taking the time to think about my current dilemma and to ofer such pertinent suggestions.It's great to turn to this board and to be the recipient of sage advice. Alex,I 've also been a great one at suggesting "list making" to analyze pros vs. cons and to initiating prioritizing.You are right,I need to do this now. C2H,your male perspective is invaluable and your spiritual emphasis, comforting. Perspective is so important in life and I know I have been losing that key element to sanity. Anxiety has led me to "catastrophize" my current situ!
My H is used to my taking care of everything with the children,house,pets,bills etc. and tends to resist doing the "hard stuff".However,he has,with my encouragement, been tutoring our son in the PM's.I have been trying to compliment him and seek his advice and I do see a glimmer of hope.I realize I have been guilty of trying to protect H and now am overwhelmed with handling everything myself. It is ironic that my journey has come full circle and now I am back in the primary role of "the homemaker".The difference now is that H WANTS it this way, in order to take care of son's problems.In the past,he thought I had an easy life raising the children and working only as a consultant,while he struggled in the corporate "shark tank".He had married a successful career woman and he resented my changing roles.Why did it take so much heartache and suffering to prove to him that I could restart my career any time and be successful outside our home.Why did it take the troubles of our children to make him realize what an asset he had at home.It's about respect.
Take care of yourself. C2H