I read with great interest your comments on Alex's situation - it is wonderful that you had become such a good therapist in the process of your own struggle. Since you and I belong to the oldtimers, I always followed your story closely and I am delighted that you saved your marriage so well. In contrast to you,I must admit that I was only able to save myself (and my son), while H did not jet show serious signs of waking up. He never asks for D, however, he also shows no signs of trying to work on the marriage. I assume that OW is still somehow in the picture (although, it might be more of a long distance thing), but I never ask him or mutual friends what is going on in H's life. I am not sure if my action to go on with my life and built a strong career of my own in any way helped our situation, but it for sure helped me to regain power in my life. I am also conflicted if after all H has done (living me in the middle of pregnancy, etc.), I can at all trust him in the future and can rebuilt life with him. Life is hard being a single mother, but at the end I feel, I had so far survived the worst. And the little boy is the true blessing of my life.
I wish you lots of happiness in your "new" marriage and keep us posted with your wise advices.
I went away for the Labor Day Weekend. My H and I have the same bday, 9/2. I really didn't want to be in town. It was his 50th, my 42nd.
I do need some advise. My H and I don't talk much. We exchange emails, and H picks the mail up at the house on Sunday evenings. I had asked H to pick the mail up on Monday evening versus Sunday last week, because I was having my family over for a bbq. Thought it would be ackward if H was there and everyone else was there too. Anyway, at noon, my H calls me on the phone and says there was no mail in the mail box, and was at the house to pick it up. That just totally shocked me. I haven't seen H in four months, so him showing up at the house was a total surprise. I was nice, but not overly sweet. H was very sheepish. It was a very short conversation. Then I got an email later in the week and he said he was sorry for interrupting me and that it would never happen again.
Ok, logically, I know he came over to see me. H has picked up the mail for the last four months without us running into each other, so why now. Then why the response. I can guess why. WHAT SHOULD I DO???? I really want to write him an email and say that he wasn't interrupting me and then talk about the relationship. Do I write from my heart and tell him that I really don't want this to be over, but I realize that if he doesn't love me, then we have to move on. HELP!!
Thanks for the advise.
Keep the faith, Kath
[This message has been edited by Pixie6 (edited 11-28-2000).]
Baker! Oh, WOW! I just read the entire thread over the last 45 minutes.
First off, congrats to you. I know how much you went through since our talks on my own thread so many moons ago. I'm very happy for you and incredibly jealous.
I'm at a bit of a stalemate in my DBing. My own H moved out on 8/4 to find himself, something I supported him with, even handing over the savings account of $4000 for him to pay his living expenses with. I found out that just this past Labor Day weekend, he chose to fly to Chicago and go out on a date with another woman whom he has been calling for a while (met through work).
This date (and whatever dates may come afterward) just flew in the face of my core values of honestly and fidelity. I could not turn and look the other way. I told H that I had made my decision and did not want to be married to someone who did not respect me enough to a)tell me he was going to date another, b)tell me where he was that weekend (our son has serious health problems and this is just irresponsible parenting in my book), and c)respect our vows enough to wait until after our divorce was finalized.
H now seems down about our pending divorce. H is concerned about losing our son, since I will have custody. I will not be the one to file the papers but have let H know that I will not tolerate that lack of respect from anyone.
My question is, what to do next? Do I continue to DB even though my mind is made up and H has said over and over that he just doesn't love me enough to try and make things work? What techniques should I use? I already concentrate on myself, I'll try active listening more, but whatelse can I do? I question whether I even want this man back, even if he gives up dating OW.
A special hello and hug to Tara and Crisch,and of course you too,Kathy!
Tara,thanks so much for thinking of me.You are strong and successful!I admire you tremendously and keep an eye on your activites over on Autumn's thread.You have accomplished so very much in the last year and a half.My best to LC.
Cris...it's wondeful to hear from you as you are a very special person to me,one of the first I connected with on this board so many months agao.I am sorry to hear that you are still embroiled in difficulties and I send you my support!(I have posted a response on your thread on MLC)
Kathy...BIG NEWS!!!...yes I DO think that your H's behavior is very MEANINGFUL.However,don't jump the gun.Sit back and kepp doing what you are doing...it's working!!!Don't scare him off as he approaches.
Lisa and Alex...my best to you,too! Bye for now...Jenny
Hi Jenny, I've been mulling over what you said for the past few days and just wanted to tell you I'm taking it to heart. I haven't anything solid to report as far as what I intend to do, just to say that your words have been taken seriously. A little history might help -- this is not the first time we've had troubles, and of a rather large nature. When we first met, my h had severe anxiety attacks, performance and separation anxieties, which were manifested as agoraphobia. He was on huge amounts of Xanax, the largest dose the psychiatrists had ever put anyone on. He feels he has never resolved those separation anxieties or where they come from, but after reading Living with a Passive Aggressive Man, I've gained some insights into that. To say the least our first few years were quite rocky, and h often wanted to talk about the relationship. As near as I coudl see, he always wanted to pick apart its inadequacies, so after a while I said I relaly couldn't keep up the energy for that kind of daily analysis. He now says he has always had reservations about our marriage, and about our way of communicating, which is why Im reluctant to give up talking with him. Since I don't want to shut him up or cut him off from talking, I guess the thing I really need to do is to try once again to distance myself emotionally. Youa re right that I am obsessing about the marriage, and that I have ignored other things -- my kids, myself, my friends, even my career to some extent, so I am getting back on my horse again. Reading DB again is always a source of positive reinforcement and serves to increase my energy. I am also reading a lot of other books, to try and glean some insights as to my behavioru and my h's behaviour. I guess what I've also allowed to happen is to let myself get drawn into h's negative downward spiral on this stuff, and to believe what he says. I need to pull back, even if only to sort out, as AUtumn put it so well, the reality from the memorex (projected). I have suggested to him thta rather than letting me have the full list with both barrels, that perhaps we look at each thing that bothers him and try to find solutions. For example, if he has felt that I am not interested in what he's doing, then we should discuss how it is that he feels that way, what I'm doing to make him feel like that, and then find out if he thinks there's a solution. Part of his problem, I'm afraid, is that he feels if people are really meant for each other, there will be no necessity to go through "behaviour modification" as he sees it. The relationship with OW, which was never physically realized, has placed him on a fantasy plane of how soulmates relate, and that includes never having to tell the other what you mean exactly. I also need to stop finding solutions for him, as in psychology, for example telling him why I think he felt the way he did. I need to keep my mouth shut and just listen. I also need to get better at not reacting, whether that's the big show -- tears and hurt feelings or the little snits when I feel he's been hurtful. We have also talked about how he must let me know when he feels angry and why, so we can talk about it, and if he thinks I'm getting defensive (which I can do) to say so. Michele says in DB that whatever you have been pigeonholed as doing, you need to address it, so since he has repeatedly pideonholed me as not communicating, we need to look at that. There are two parts to his dissatisfaction, the first being that I have muzzled him and he has muzzled me -- he by being overcritical and me by being defensive, so in the past we just shut up and put up, and that has led to a competitiveness between us which breaks down communicaiton and intimacy. The second part which I can do nothing about is his fantasy about intensely communing with someone. I can not be what I am not, and while I can try to change behaviour like irritability, short-temperedness, bossiness, etc., I cannot change who I am, or what makes me tick, and if who I am is not what he desires, I cannot change that, and he must deal with that in whatever way he sees fit. I can try and be more compassionate to him and do the things that he needs, like some space at the end of the day, like an ear to listen to his problems, and someone warm and loving, physically and emotionally, but beyond that I can go no further for him. And in fact if I try I will only succeed in doing what I have done for so many years -- being a parasite on his shoulder, not leading my own life, and not being myself, and therefore destined to end up not being loved for myself, and likely not being loved period. Does this sound more like what you are getting at? I do know the cessation of OR talks was very helpful over the last several months, but for the reasons stated I don't want to cut them altogether, but instead am going to try and refashion them. MY h claims he loves to talk, and this is true to a certain extent, but in the past, it was never centred on what can we do for each other, or the realtionship, but what he was dissatisfied with. For my part, I turned off because I felt he was being very critical, so I didn't listen, which was not smart and certainly not very mature. He has tried to explain to me that he doesn't want to say anuything about his feelings in case they change the next day and he has to recant them, so I'm trying to hang pretty loose on hearing any words of commitment. The time will come when I have truly done everything I can, and when I will then need and expect to have some sort of commitment from him, as a means of creating some emotional security for myself and the children, which is badly lacking right now. Enough of this. Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to respond, Jenny. You really have been tremendously helpful. Cheers Alex
Sorry I neglected to answer your post!I would be happy to consider your questions,feel free to post right here on this thread!You will also get the insight of others which is most helpful!
I have noticed you are asking several DB posters to correspond with you privately via email.May I ask why you feel the need to do this?
Please give me some background info on yourself and I will try to help you.
Have you posted under other identities? I could catch up reading those posts.
Baker, I think I finally get it. I went back and read my posts from the past few weeks to see if there was any progression, or differences between what was working and what wasn't.
Basically, what works is letting him vent, but detaching myself enough to not let it affect/hurt me. What else works is shutting my mouth -- that means no offering solutions, no translating, no arguing with what are his feelings, allowing him all the complaining he wants.
What doesn't work is pursuing -- that means defending myself, crying about how he's hurt me, etc., revolving everything I feel around him and his behaviour.
We had a chat (pillow talk) on our anniversary -- about his continued ambivalence, about how he's reminded of our glaring inability to talk when he sees his old freinds (female always). I let him talk, didn't argue, though I did say maybe he was right, that I had some doubts as well. (He got riled up about that). I also did not let it register so I didn't react to the conversation. Good breakthrough for me was in no delayed reaction which is my usual MO. I didn't wake up in the middle of the night angry or crying, though I did come to the board on Sunday and felt pretty down.
I shored myself up with information: 1) this is his problem 2) I cannot change his problem; I cannot talk him out of leaving, or convince him he has a great thing going here 3) I cannot be something I am not 4) we come into this life alone, we leave it alone, and it is our life to make something of, whether we are with someone or not -- BEING HAPPY DOES NOT DEPEND ON HOW SOMEONE ELSE MAKES YOU FEEL, so stop depending on h to stop this madness in order for me to be happy -- that is up to me to do NOW and for myself! 5) do not fall into the negativity trap; being non-reactive shows I have let go; he will have to convince someone else of his "truth" namely himself
When I came home from work yesterday, there were beautiful flowers and alovely anniversary card for me. I need to remember, always, that he does care, and that he is horribly conflicted.
I hope as we move into another season(I love the fall!) that each one of you is reaching a higher level of enlightenment and coming to a better understanding of what YOU personally need as an individual.I invite you to think about your own needs and make sure that you are accepting the responsibilty of cherishing your precious time on earth.So much time is spent obsessing on others and so little on self development.
Alex,I am pleased to see you are gaining insight in to the DB method and it's application to your special set of circumstances.
Through reading your prolific posts all over this site,I can tell you have an active mind,and are thinking and reviewing constantly.Are you a "high energy" person or are you an anxious person who worries about a lot of things.Regardless,once you put all your energy in to DBing you will have the results you have been striving for as well as an intact family.
Hi Jenny, Right on both counts -- I am extremely high energy, and I can be an anxious worrier in certain circumstances. This is one of them, but I feel a worthwhile one, preserving my children's legacy. I do tend to obsessiveness -- like a dog with a bone some might say -- and it's been wonderful having this board, so that I can give my poor friends a break. And of course I never let it all out with h. I value your input Jenny, and appreciate your time. Thanks, and thanks for the vote of confidence.
