Hi Alex!<P> You have been having a rough time.I know how much it hurts to hear the man you've devoted your life to,make such hurtful remarks.<P>However...DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!<P>You are becoming addicted to the angst of all of this.In other words it is easy to become obsessed day and night about the state of your marriage... to the point where you are neglecting not only your own needs,but those of your children.I DID THE SAME THING!I put my children on the back burner and boy did they resent it and I still see a residual effect of last year's abandonment by the mother they knew and loved.A mother who turned into a person who was on the verge of a breakdown...yes that was me!<BR> Alex...grp therapy was very helpful for me and I hope you are receiveing some help of this nature.<P> You are allowing yourself to be abused emotionally and you must detach from your H's MLC immediately,before you totally burn out.<P> Your H has the luxury of dumping all his selfish adolescent rebellion on YOU!Stop...encouraging that.<P> Alex...you know it is all garbage...don't take him seriously.Don't have ANY OR talks...PERIOD!!!<P> Actions are what you need...your own POSITIVE actions.You will NOT draw him back by having these "heart to heart" discussions about how wonderful other women are!<P> Your H LOVES YOU and just has lost touch with that,at this stage in his life.Back off and let him miss you.Don't ask him what his needs are and certainly don't try to bend over backwards being someone you are not!<P> Read Michel's books again. Get back to basics...quickly.Don't give yesterday a thought..just move on in a positive direction from this moment on.Get back to DBing.It works,Alex,have faith in the techniques.<BR> <BR> Again...I say...DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!<P> Hugs and PMA to you...Jenny<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by 17baker445 (edited 08-28-2000).]
Hi everyone!! Thanks for asking about me. I am sorry that I have not been responding or posting lately. I don't have time to post as I have got to leave work right now and go take care of a million things that are going on in my life, but I will post more later.
Just to let you know, I am not doing too good. My husband has spoken with Michelle's associate and was going to again and then did not have his number and did not and now this week he is going to call him again. He flip flops alot on what he is doing. He even told me he would consider calling the divorce off, but now it seems like he is not going too. I will write more and tell you more of what was said later. All in all I am just really upset and having lots of backslides every time I talk to him. It is just that when I feel like I am losing something I want to try to hold on to and say "Dammit don't you see that all of this stuff you are saying is you being confused even though you say you are and then you say you aren't." I know it does not help him to see it but I just don't want to lose him. He was (is) a great person that has "changed." His words (the changed part.)
For other drama in my life, our house was broken into one night while he was at work and I was supposed to be at the house but I was not. The police think it was possibly a neighbor or one of his friends as there have been other houses broken into. They took all of the "little" things that they could get ahold of. Now me and my husband are dealing with insurance papers and divorce papers. I will say that the day that I walked in and found the house robbed I called him and he came home right away and we spoke for a few hours and the talk was very good and he cried and I did a little also. He even checked up on me that night-he actually walked off the line at work )he works in a factory) and called me to see if I was doing ok and if someone was going to stay with me because he was worried. Well a few days after that and he is back to being distant again. Go figure.
Anyway, I will write more later. I will tell you that one of my husbands concerns to Michelle's associate was that I was makaing all of these changes and he was afraid that they would not last. I thought that meant there was ambivalence, but now he does not seem confused at all.
Any advice or words of wisdom or just good thoughts I would appreciate. Thank you all soooooooooo much!!!! May God Bless all of you!!!
Hi Lisa! Thanks for the update.Sounds like you are continuing to make some progress. However,LISTEN to what you are saying about NOT using DBing tecniques.You need to change that right now! Read Michele's books and start DBIng for real,while you still have a chance. It's wonderful that you are receiving help from Michele's staff....But YOU have to do MOST of the work YOURSELF! Lisa,you won't save your marriage by hanging on kicking and screaming all the way.Who would want to come back to a situation like that. If you DB effectively,your H will be drawn back to you and will feel like he is making the decision himself.
This is all so hard. Even though I know what I need to do someitmes I get caught up in the moment and backslide. It seems to really happen when my H is acting like he is rethinking and then I guess I may push too much although for the most part I don't think I push until he starts to back away again. When he seems to be very set on this divorce is when I lose it the most. I mean why talk to me about thinking about coming home and then say No I want to divorce and not be married. He wants to D and then figure things out because he doesn't know and then he does know because he has just changed. Then we will not get along and I will lose it and then the next day he is calling me a few times just to talk. What is it with all of this vascillating back and forth and back and forth. Did you all run into this and how do you deal with it. He also vascillates between calling Michelle's associate and then wondering why he is calling him. He wants to talk to him and then it is why do I need to talk to him? How do you all (or how did you?) deal with this? I know that I should just listen and repeat what he says, but in the meantime how do you deal with all of your emotions so that you do not lose it with them? That is my hardest part. I will feel like I am doing good and then wham he will call me and if things don't go so good I will fall apart again. He will be coming to our house on Saturday to mow the lawn but I will more than likely not be there as it is my Mother's Birthday tomorrow and I will probably go see her out of town tomorrow night when I get off of work, but I don't know. I just don't know where to go from here. I guess I should just prepare for this Damn D!!! Also the hardest part is wondering Why? DId you all go through that? I went from having a wonderful romantic husband who thought that I made life worth living to one who has served me with Divorce papers. One thing he keeps mentioning to Michelle's associate and to me is he thinks the different shifts really was the main thing that hurt us. No time together so just divorce me and what spend time with the OW whose son and mother get on your nerves and who you say you could leave tomorrow and it would be no big deal. Yeah that is the chicken way out of things.
one other thing: My husband keeps telling me: I love you but not like you deserve. I guess that is the guilt talking who knows but did any of you ever hear that one?
Lisa<BR>Listen to Jenny, listen to Jenny, listen to Jenny.<BR>Read DB, read DB, read DB.<BR>Believe me, the only time I ever slip back with my h is when I start pursuing (that includes reacting, crying, being hurt, the whole nine yards.<BR>The only time I get anywhere with him is when I distance, be very upbeat, laughing and joking.<BR>Read Why Marriages Succeed and Fail. They talk alot about reacting, defensiveness, criticism, non-validation of feelings and so on as being the killers of love.<BR>It's unbelievably hard to listen to this crap and have to validate it, but you do. Remember, it's not about who is right, or who is confused, but getting yourm arriage back on track. Youa re taking the stand that he is wrong, he is confused, and he has to change. (You are mostly right because his behaviour is the most obvious, but I've also learned through the last couple of years that there's lots of behvariour on my part that's not helping either, such as criticism, judgement, and so on.)<BR>Bite your tongue when you feel yourself wanting to tell him what a nincompoop he is. The fact that he is wavering is good. At least he is expressing some desire to come home, so when you hear the negative stuff, only remember the positive stuff and let that be your guide. Act as if you know he loves you. Period. And good luck. And lots of hugs.
Hi Jenny, I guess I'm having a problem discerning between being an active listener and getting drawn right back into the fray. I don't want to discourage the talking because that's been my h's consistent complaint about our marriage -- the lack of communicaiton. I don't think it's entirely true since we have talked a lot about a lot of stuff. I have suggested to himt hat he is looking for some kind of supreme communion with someone, and that many, many times when he has returned from dinner with his old friend (and old flame, another unrequited EA before I met him), that he has felt discouraged that the dinner didn't rate as one of the best or most intense events. I reminded him that seldom has he come home from dinner with her and sprakled and said that was great, and that even if he were married to her they might have one or two intense conversations a year and the rest would be humdrum. He admits this is probalby his problem, so I do want to keep the communicaiton open. I guess I'm having difficulty drawing the boundary lines of what to accept and how much complaint is enough. We discussed this and I said maybe we should talk about one thing he finds disturbing and then we explore it, such as I feel you're not interested in what I'm doing. Now, I feel I'm very interested in his work and always have been, but if he's feeling like that then we need to discuss it. SO I suggested that we take that one point, for example, and discuss why he felt I wasn't interested -- because my eyes glaze over, because I get interrupted by the children, and then how do we solve the problem that he doesn't feel he's getting undivided attention. He thought that was reasonable. I also asked him what was his intention with the talks -- to work on our marriage, to test whether I was capable of giving him what he needs, or what. He said just to see if we could talk. Okay. Let's try it. Now, how do I distance under those circumstances, since I don't want to cut off the communicaiton? Perhaps I should cease all physical intimacy, partly because I'm starting to feel like not doing it, but also because he's not acting like a husband so maybe I should not act like a wife, and just be a sounding board. In the past, he told me that what made him fall in love with me was my warmth and how much I seemed to care for him, so do I continue that? It doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere as far as making him want me. When I have said I'm tired of not being wanted, he says he finds me very desirable. But that is like telling a woman in a bar that you want to sleep with her but aren't in love with her. What's so unusual about that? I know I need to do something different, but what? I agree that things were a bit better balanced when we didn't have OR talks, but he wants them. Or maybe we should not have OR talks, but talk instead about what makes me tick, what makes him tick, and steer clear of the OR stuff. Is that possible? Maybe I need to start going away for a few days at a time, so that he can take care of the kids on his own. I don't know if that's possible, but perhaps I could try it. Have you any suggestions, o wise one? Maybe I'm wanting more than he can give, and this is all I'm going to get from this marriage. Oerhaps the key is to stop my expectations and to stop putting forth what I want from him. Then again, maybe that's a bad idea. One thing he said about me was he felt he didn;t know me. I'm also hearing him complain more aobut other people, and some of the stuff, even the chance remarks sounds like such drivel, and such petty childish complaining. And massive amounts of negativity. The group therapy thing sounds good -- where did you find yours? How are you dealing with your kids now, BTW? Thanks again, Jenny.
One more question -- do you think I should suggest that we not have OR talks unless we can strike some sort of balance? Such as one negative complaint, followed by one positive comment? And see if we can get the two remarks to be flip sides of the same coin? Or at least see if the two things have something in common?
I must admit I am puzzled by all the "talks" you and your H have.I can only give advice based on Michele's techniques and my own experience.
My position remains the same: NO... OR talks.However,Alex,you should NOT discuss your tactics w your H.Just listen to him and avoid analyzing and figuring things out FOR him.You can talk your self "blue in the face" with tremendous insight and it won't help a bit.Your H has to figure things out for himself.Your pointing out the reality of his OW fantasies,will continue to fall on deaf ears.I know I tried the same thing w my H prior to my detaching from his MLC.
This takes a considerable amount of effort and restraint,initially.Please do some research on MLC to help you understand his state of mind.This is about him,not about you.
I learned from my excellent therapist that some people just LIKE TO COMPLAIN.They don't want solutions just an empathetic ear.I have always been an action oriented problem solver,so it was difficult for me to hold myself back from processing w my H.Once I was successful in allowing my H the luxury of telling me how miserable he was (without solutions)I started to make progress.It took months,but it worked!
Going back to work was a Godsend for me too as it took me out of the thick of things and gave me a better perspective on my life.My confidence returned and I started to heal.My independence and success made me even more attractive to my H.I could tell months before he admitted it,that my H really wanted and needed me.I just had to wait for him to realize it himself.
Finally,at one point when he started in on the "I am just not happy" bit,I said fine,I am going on with own life.I told him I wanted to go away for a while to figure out what I wanted to do w the rest of my life.It was then that he WOKE UP and committed himself to me and our marriage again.He has continued to be a loving and devoted H.
My wkly grp therapy was so very helpful in giving the motivation and courage I needed to remain in "limbo" for so long.My therapist is a world famous author who was recommended to me by Michele.I was so fortunate that he was located nearby.He gave me a different perspective on my H and our marriage.I had to learn to be less controlling and to allow my H all the "gripe time" he needed.Once,I realized I didn't need to have any answers,it became easy just to listen and to avoid personalizing.
Alex re intimacy,everyone has to do decide what is comfortable for them individually.However,men do tend to communicate physically and it's quite meaningful that you have this connection w your H.Again I say...DON"T UNDERESTIMATE this aspect of your relationship.
Alex,my boys are doing much better and they can see the obvious affection between my H and myself.This is helping them to feel safe again.I am still regretful for all they suffered especially seeing me sobbing and heartbroken so frequently.However,I did the best I could and I did manage to save my marriage and keep their family intact.This in the long run is a good message for them...to stick it out when the going gets rough and preserve the family unit at all costs.They have watched our ups and downs and have experienced our reunion.For this I am grateful as it could have worked out very differently,if I had pursued my original course of action.
My therapist told me that many people actually wind up w an accidental divorce due to heated emotions and a lack of patience.
I hope I have been helpful,Alex.You are repetitive in your questions which makes me think you still don't get it.Please read Michele's books and focus on your own growth and development.Call Michele for a referral in your area and don't give up.Your H needs you very much and it is obvious that he loves you.Just don't play his game any longer.Play your own game.
Your friend...Jenny
[This message has been edited by 17baker445 (edited 09-04-2000).]
