Pixie6: I could co-author those 2 books with you, as I have done a pretty good job myself of doing all the wrong things, and for longer than you have! My H told me he had to hand it to me, I was very persistent (as in not giving up on trying to get him to discuss and fix our marriage). I hope it's not too late for either of us now that we've finally learned to be good db'ers. I'd like to hear some encouraging news from others who didn't "get it" for a long time and still managed to turn things around. Unfortunately, I'm worried about OW now. I keep thinking if my H has an OW, how quickly will he want to D me so he can marry her? I hope he wouldn't jump into anything that fast. Good luck with your situation Pixie6. I just wanted you to know that you're not the only one who didn't catch on for a while!