Quote: thanks again Rob and OT. You have both done wonders for me this morning.
No thanks necessary my friend...you have done wonders for me these past few months, I'm only giving back 1/10th of what you ever gave to me.
Now go do good things!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Ok you two (and anyone else for that matter) here is what I have so far. This was pretty stream-of-consciousness with very little editing so go gently on me.
Ok my mentors...here is what I came up with so far. (Of course the language would be a little different in person but...)
W,
I first want to say that my position has not changed at all. I love you and I want our marriage to be better than ever when we get past this. To that end I have something I want to talk to you about and I hope we can talk honestly and openly about it. I have been trying to wait for a perfect time to talk, but there will never be one so I've just decided be direct with this, something I have had a problem with in the past. I don't want to continue to keep this in and act differently than I want to towards you because of it.
Thursday, while doing the bit of laundry you asked me to do for you, I was cleaning out your pockets and found a receipt. I looked at it to see if it was something I could throw away and saw that one of the items on it was a pregnancy test. This really shocked me. I was deeply hurt not just because it seemed to confirm what I already suspected, but I also hurt for you because I now realize that this was what you may have been stressed about in the beginning of the week but felt you couldn't talk to me about it. I want you to know you can, and I am asking you to now so that we can begin to deal with some of the rest of this that you have not told me about before now and I have been left to guess about.
From there, she will probably interject. These are my points I would want to get across, or things I would want to know about in the ensuing conversation.
- Her admission of the PA and what happened with the suspected pregnancy - Her at least saying the PA is over and putting a time frame on it - I am hurt but more by the dishonesty than the A that is one part of it - I CAN and WILL forgive her - Are we in an R where honesty and fidelity can be expected - How does that honesty manifest itself? Are there still secrets possible or should we expect each other to be a "open book"?
If she tries to deflect the conversation to my snooping, I will just say something like: "I understand you are upset. I never intended to find this out. I did not seek the information and if I could un-know it, I probably would but now that I do know, I think we need to talk about it for both out sakes."
The one thing I am most afraid of is her just shutting down on me. It's her habit to do that and if she does it tonight, I don't quite know what to do. In the past I would just follow her if she left the room and keep things going. Sometimes that would re-engage her in the conversation, other times it would not. If she does that tonight, I would be at a loss.
I DO just want to be compassionate and I hope I will be able to maintain that stance no matter how she responds.
BTW, Rob, this was the most important thing I read today.
Quote: Being compassionate and loving doesn't mean being docile and passive....I think you can still have your concerns aired here. I guess its your reaction to whatever answers to you may or may not recieve that will determine whether your are being compassionate and loving. If she comes clean, then compassionate and loving may mean your forgiveneess and acceptance to move beyond the sitch. If she doesn't come clean, then being compassionate and loving would mean accepting that your R hasn't progressed to the point that you thought it had, and understanding why it hasn't (whether its because she isn't ready for it yet, etc.) and affording her the space necessary to get to that point.
That is what let me understand what I need to do and a little about how to do it. Thanks again.
Really great stuff. I'm not sure what to do if W shuts down. I can tell you if I shut down, the last thing I want is for H to ignore me.
I'd probably want some hugs and nourishing touch, some comforting, validating, nondemanding words ("I know this is scary and hard. It is really OK for you to share with me.... These are hard and painful times for both of us... We can both really get to a better place, no matter what that turns out to be for each of us..."), and some encouragement to open up ("OK, that was alot to take in, lets just start with something small...") And, it would probably take a lot more of this kind of stuff than one might think for me to feel safe and become less defensive. It would take repetition and patience. But, I would feel abandoned by you and bad about myself if you left before we made some progress and worked through some things.
(I do not envy my H having to deal with me when I give every signal in the world that I want to just drop something and be left alone (like telling him that and leaving the room), when what I really want is the opposite, lol.)
Again, no thanks are necessary....reading your posts and the advice of others has afforded me that insight which is only just starting to make me see things differently...
As to your direct concerns, I believe that what you have crafted is a very good script because it does go to the heart of the matter and comes across as direct and honest about your feelings, while trying to gain a further understanding of exactly what type of R you should expect.
Quote: The one thing I am most afraid of is her just shutting down on me. It's her habit to do that and if she does it tonight, I don't quite know what to do. In the past I would just follow her if she left the room and keep things going. Sometimes that would re-engage her in the conversation, other times it would not. If she does that tonight, I would be at a loss.
In essence, I think this is the heart of the matter. Her reaction or inaction is really the key to this. If she does deflect and does not engage, then you will at least know that she is not ready for that level of an R with you at the moment. That doesn't mean that she won't hear your concerns or at least think about them (remember, unless she is deaf, she is hearing you) but it just means that she hasn't reached that "comfort" level yet. Just as important, you will have to decide whether you can still maintain that level of comfort for yourself in an ongoing pseudo-R. Considering your tenacity up to this point, I think you already know the answer to that...it will utlimately be something you will have to slip into your pocket for further discussion once your R is solid enough to support such a discussion.
IOW, the medium is good, your words are thoughtful and direct....they are designed to gain a further understanding of just where the heck you two are in this process as opposed to being manipulative or assigning blame. Importantly, they also let her know that she will have to address some of these issues with you in order to foster an open, loving and healthy R in the future. Fair warning, however, she may not be there just yet and you, my friend, will have to chose whether that is acceptable to you or not.
Remember, we all have choices and the choice to stick by her until such time that she is able to address these issues is your choice.
One last word of advice: If she chooses not to engage, under no circumstances do you continue to press the issue if she has effectively shut you down. This is the one bit of advice that I wish I could follow more effectively, but given my nature, its one of the hardest things to do.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Ok, thanks for the validation on this. I was totally unsure if it was "right". I guess my instincts are ok afterall.
Now, the other thing I am afraid of is an outright denial, her saying that it was for someone else or something. What do I do then? I know in my mind I would be screaming "liar" over and over again but I don't think I want to say that. I guess I would just let it drop at that point and as Rob said, accept that things are not as far along as I thought.
Quote: (I do not envy my H having to deal with me when I give every signal in the world that I want to just drop something and be left alone (like telling him that and leaving the room), when what I really want is the opposite, lol.)
Talk about passive/aggressive! LOL What a fine line we all walk. That's a hard line to define for any of us...I've already been thrown out of the room and then been sought out several minutes later for further discussion.
I guess it all boils down to what level of "shutting down" that is employed. I definitely wouldn't follow her about the house trying to get your point across, but then again, as OT stated, coming across in nondemanding, validation affirmations could go a long way to softening her defenses and making her feel comfortable in opening up. Again, it is a fine line...I typically can tell when I cross it with my W when she threatens to spear me with her eyeliner pencil! lol
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
GH - May I suggest the "Scarlett O'Hara" rule? Leave it for 24 hours, plan to think about it tomorrow? Sometimes these things are a lot clearer if you leave them sit for a day.
As to how to approach your wife when you do - maybe you should write it down for her, instead of speaking to her? Might allow you to get what you want said without her interruptions or denials getting in the way?
(((((GH)))))