Yeah. Let me pull you in the OTHER direction. Do not tell her who Vernetta is. It would not help. Although you COULD say she is a counselor. No details, though. And don't mention divorcebusting.com.
Quote: Hmmm. It would have been so much easier if you had told her that you were speaking to a marriage counselor instead of "Vernetta." Not qualifying it makes it sound like ti could be a new "OW."
Thanks for offering another way to look at it. I wasn't trying to be secretive. I just didn't want it to be perceived as pursuing.
Quote: If you can have a decent conversation with her I would come to her and tell her that you have been trying to understand all that went wrong with your relationship and contacted a marraige counselor and THAt is why you were on the phone so long.
I really thought calling V a marriage counselor would be taken as pursuit. I can always clarify that now. I just don't want her to perceive it as pressuring her.
BTW, she often has her dating beaus stopping by the office to see her. Happended today. She asked me to take care of an appointment for her because she couldn't make it. I told her NO, because I am too busy at work doing MY stuff. I drove back to the office and saw her seeing another beau. This is the same person I saw her meeting LAST week when she had me doing a bunch of HER crap for HER job. I am a blind dummy no more! She makes no attempt to hide what she is up to. Makes me sad, not mad, though. Or perhaps I am being stupid and blind? Perhaps?
Also, I am hoping that my NOT mentioning that I see her engaging a beau is helpful. I saw her last week and today with the same gentleman. I don't blame the guys she is dating. I am certain she is telling them I am awful and she is single. Plus, it's not THEIR responsibility to make her work on her marriage, it's hers. I have been pleasantly surprised at my restraint and composure during this difficult, trying time.
I only hope that with prayers for myself, my W, and our family that all will work out so that our family will be reunited and rebuilt, better, stronger and more loving. This road I travel is tough. But so am I.
Today, more of the same from my W, primarily rubbing her dating in my face and talking to our co-workers about her beaus. She knows our co-workers are going to make a beeline to tell me her antics. Oh, well, I always have the option of quitting and getting out of the direct line of fire, but I feel that would be letting her control me more than she already has in the past. I need to stand up and be a man, husband to her or not.
As I said in a previous post, her behavior makes me sad, not mad. But...if it gets to be too much for me, I can always go. I have already gotten over the fear of looking for, interviewing for and landing a new job. Had 2 interviews and 2 job offers in 3 weeks. My MIL advised me against taking them. So...I am not afraid of venturing out into a different job if the crazymaking of working with my W gets to be too much for me. My MIL often tells me that she knows her D best and advises me to be patient and trust in the Lord.
One thing I believe, My W is trying to test my strength and resolve by behaving this way. My W wants to control me and FORCE me to do what she wants me to do. THAT would put her in a position of strength with me and her mother (in her mind). One thing I know. She has seriously underestimated my strength, resolve, and love for her and our family. I have gotten so much stronger since she said she wanted a D because of my A.
Also today, she asked me to show a duplex for her because she was busy. I show up at the office and she is SOOOO busy that she has time to be out front flirting with her beau. Good thing I had the strength to say NO already. Then she asks me if I have plans tonight and I answered her pleasantly, but without turning around, yes I do have plans. She then called our sitter to see if our sitter would be able to be with our children until she returned. Hurray for me! I mean, I want to see our children every day, of course, but not to facilitate her making her way to divorcing me. She is doing what she wants to do, so pay for a sitter!
I just asked my MIL how SHE liked showing units today in my place. She said she didn't and didn't even want to be at the office working. She also said she is going to work on saying NO to my W. She told me that my W roped her into doing her (my W's) job earlier in the week. I told her about my encouner with my W earlier in the day and she said, "I know all about it. She (my W) was in my office during that conversaton. BTW, I am proud of you for saying NO. I have to learn to do the same."
My MIL said she is not going to pay her D and then do HER D's job for her. My MIL is pissed! You see, my MIL sees her D (my W) clearly. My W is egocentric and narcissistic...but darn it, I love her. NOTE: she gave me a "hard" stare after I had told her no twice today. But I remained pleasant and she softened and smiled at me later on. I am taking that as a baby step, despite her other (mis)behavior.
I am working on fixing me right now to see if the "fixed" me and my W are compatible. I believe we are, but we may not be. While I am figuring this out, I will continue fighting the good fight. I believe a "fixed" me will show her how to be in a loving, giving, fulfilling, nurturing marriage by being a great happy, healthy, WHOLE husband. We will see.
Now, for my Vernetta session: I started out rambling, but V got me on a productive track quickly and gently.
She highly recommended I use the LRT, to do my OWN things. When my W asks me to help her out with the children, I could always say OK and pick up the children and leave. Nothing says I have to stay at the house and give my W the benefit of my and the children's presence. When I have stayed there with the children in the past, we mostly interacted with e/o (me and the children) and NOT my S, although we did not ignore her. We simply left her alone. Vernetta called that BEING WITH MY CHILDREN! Also, V cautioned me against enabling her to do her other work which benefits ONLY her and her efforts to separate from me and our M.
V also told me I need to adjust previously set boundaries and set those that are not yet in place. She offered some solutions that are unique to my sitch, solution oriented, of course. V told me to incorporte as much of the LRT as possible into my interactions with my W.
Strangely enough, the changes I have been making are being noticed by my W amd she is strangely receptive to them. I haven't gotten much in the way of anger or resistance. But by the same token, she still out pursuing beaus. Oh, well. This is still early in her hurt. Just over 3 months now. And she is a tough nut to crack. I am trying patience, persistence and love. I hope that is the right combination to fixing our M.
V also referred me to two books by Barry McCarthy: (1) Rekindling Desire nd (2) Couples Sexual Awareness. I am going to order them tonight from Amazon.com. V also said that for a FULL recovery of our M, that means education for both me and my S. She said I can start now by figuring out who I am.
V directed me to look at my difficult interactions with my W and figure out solution-oriented ways to deal with the difficulty better. I have usually just been too hurt and pissed to do that, but today is a new day.
I told V about my dealings with people in my personal life. Most people have had it with my slow way of dealing with my M and my W. Most have said they would throw in the towel, to which I tell them I may end up doing that but not before I have exhausted EVERY other avenue of redemption and reconciliation first. V told me to tell them that I appreciate their care and love and say to them, "What I need from you is to listen, that's it. I am getting professional counseling in dealing with my life. Although I may not act on you advice in your time frame, I am listening and do appreciate your time and support."
V also illustrated a format for being solution-oriented in my interactions with others, including my W. My problem is that I only wrote down 2 of them. If anyone would be willing to help me with the other 2 I would be indebted.
1. I notice....
2. My perception of it is....
3. ?
4. ?
For the life of me I can't remember 3 and 4. I wrote something else those lines, but I believe #3 was to propose a solution by setting my boundaries and limits and #4 was asking the other person for their idea of a solution if they did not agree with my solution. Any help on what the correct #3 and #4 are would be greatly appreciated.
Vernetta told me that GAL is carving out 85% of my time for myself and 15% of my time for my children and she said if you have an extra 2% (taking you to 102%) you can give that to you W, if you please. Feels strange to even think that way. Having a life of my own is so foreign to me.
The LAST thing I talked with V about was my inability to say NO to my W's requests for me to "do for" her on my OFF days. V asked my why I do what I do? Is it out of guilt? YES, it is. V then asked me what Christians need to do to be forgiven and also what God & Jesus did for our salvation. I answered and she reminded me, "You are forgiven." V told me that I am denying the "power of the cross" by holding onto my guilt and letting that be the guiding force of my decisions (and in my life, at this point). She said I was worshiping at the idol of my W by "doing for her" out of guilt. V told me that I am disobeying a primary commitment and the power of the cross. She gave me one last direction. "Always be prepared to buy yourself some time to pray about a sitch and THEN respond." I know I will like me and my decisions if I allow myself the time to think and not just react.
That Vernetta is a powerful woman!! THANK YOU so much for your time, effort, energy, insight and caring. My prayers are with you on you sabbatical.
Quote: Oops. Late to the party...I'm glad you clarified who it was on the phone. I don't think games are helpful right now.
I never intended it as a game or to be vague or secretive. Just worried about it being perceived as pursuing. Thank you for checking in GH. I value your insight.
I AM one long winded guy, aren't I? Look at my LONG posts.
I understand what you were doing but the fact is you didn't have to explain any further than she was a counselor. What KIND of counselor is none of W's business if you choose not to tell her.
It sounds like you are getting good advice and good real-world support. I think you are heading in the right direction and I can only hope you W joins you sooner rather than later going that way.
I hope so too. I know her though. She defines the words stubborn and egocentric. My worry is that she will jump into another relationship, which will affect our children, perhaps negatively. I understand that I have no control over that though.
I really want to ask her the question, "If our R could magically have little or NO problems, would you want to reconsider going through with a D?" I don't do that because I believe it would be considered pressure and/or pursuit and make my already sticky sitch worse (if that's even possible). I would love for her to read Michelle's Change Your Life and Everyone In It. Then again, I would love a lot of things.... Me loving something different in my life doesn't make it advisable or smart. *shrug* I do really feel that she might take a second looks at the possibilities in her life and M if she read that info with an open mind. Again, *shrug*
