Being an open book to establish trust after an A is for couples trying to reconcile. You are not currently part of a couple that is trying to reconcile. I don't see much point in continually defending yourself and arguing with her about your present (lack of) infidelity.
I'd be pretty clear about this -- "W, if you want to work on our R and rebuilding trust, then I think discussing my private life with you will be useful. Otherwise, I will no longer engage in these fights about my infidelity. I was unfaithful. I hurt myself, and worse I hurt you and us. I am terribly sorry for the pain I caused you. I have pledged to myself and you to not have any other romantic or sexual Rs outside of our marriage. Should my position change on that, I will let you know. As my wife, you have a right to know whether or not I am choosing emotional and physical monogamy. And I am, it is my choice to continue to do so. For now, that is the end of the subject for me. You have made it clear that you wish to lead separate lives for now. I understand that you are seeing other people. I need to respect your wish for privacy and space and you need to let me do so. To sum up, I am not continuing to break our marriage vows and I will not unless I inform you otherwise. I am taking space for my own life as that is your wish. Should we decide to work on the M, then of course we will need to work on rebuilding trust and I will be very happy to be an open book to you. But, for now, that kind of R would be one-sided on my part and decidedly NOT what you have asked for."
Quote: You are absolutely right, she is not the judge, the jury, the executioner and she sure is not my God so I do need to stop seeking redemption in her eyes, but in regards to my M, she is all of the above.
No. She's not. She just THINKS she is. She needs a reality check. This tit for tat stuff is getting you nowhere.
Quote: If she wants a D, I will show her what life will be like without the good parts of me.
Good way to start with the reality check.
Listen, you stumbled, you fell, you got dirty. You learned your lesson. You are worthy of respect and consideration and two wrongs never make a right. She has handled this with a pompous attitude from the get go. In all the time I was in my MLC - to include when my H found out about the OM - he NEVER disrespected me the way your wife is disrespecting you. I did much worse for far longer than you did and his treatment of me never went in this direction. Even when he got drunk. Would I have taken it? Only if it was leading towards healing and did no further harm. We have only recently begun to talk about things at length. I listen to him tell me about his anger and his pain because it is part of the healing process for us. It hurts me. I am ashamed all over again. But I have to go through it. He does, too. And we both have to remain standing tall, being honest and willing to work on things or this marriage will become another statistic. I'm not willing to let that happen. I pray you and your wife will get to this point. She needs to burn out. You giving her that reality check can aid in that process. You demanding the respect that you DO deserve because of your contrite heart and willingness to go the extra mile will also help.
Quote: No. She's not. She just THINKS she is. She needs a reality check. This tit for tat stuff is getting you nowhere.
This tit for tat stuff is getting us where her anger wants to take us, straight to a D.
Quote: Listen, you stumbled, you fell, you got dirty. You learned your lesson. You are worthy of respect and consideration and two wrongs never make a right.
Yes I am. Thank you.
Quote: She has handled this with a pompous attitude from the get go.
I have let her behavior toward me slide because I felt like I deserved her anger and disrespect. I know it has gone on long enought for me. I will stand up for myself when she wrongs me. I will say what I mean without being mean.
Listening to your story with your H leaves me with clear insight on how my M needs to be reconciled. My M will never be reconciled with my W's continued disrespectful treatment of me, which is why I made the decision on TH evening to no longer play her game her way. I am deserving of respect. Yes I did screw up bad, but I am doing everything humanly possible to make amends for all of the hurt I have caused. I especially appreciate your path you spelled out about only listenting to my S's anger if it was leading to healing. I pray my W does not let our M get to a D. I desperately want to avoid being a statistic.
I feel like I am drowning in my pain. However, I was directed to a book, Codependent No More and I saw my R in there in numerous stories. I can hardly wait to get through the book to better understand the turbulent dynamics of my R.
Anyway, my W is beating me to a pulp emotionally, but she will not get me to stop loving her and give up on our marriage. I just need to find a better, more fulfilling, upbeat way to fight the good fight.
Quote: You are not currently part of a couple that is trying to reconcile.
I could not have said it better myself. You are absolutely correct. I am the only one trying to reconcile my M.
Quote:
I'd be pretty clear about this -- "W, if you want to work on our R and rebuilding trust, then I think discussing my private life with you will be useful. Otherwise, I will no longer engage in these fights about my infidelity. I was unfaithful. I hurt myself, and worse I hurt you and us. I am terribly sorry for the pain I caused you. I have pledged to myself and you to not have any other romantic or sexual Rs outside of our marriage. Should my position change on that, I will let you know. As my wife, you have a right to know whether or not I am choosing emotional and physical monogamy. And I am, it is my choice to continue to do so. For now, that is the end of the subject for me. You have made it clear that you wish to lead separate lives for now. I understand that you are seeing other people. I need to respect your wish for privacy and space and you need to let me do so. To sum up, I am not continuing to break our marriage vows and I will not unless I inform you otherwise. I am taking space for my own life as that is your wish. Should we decide to work on the M, then of course we will need to work on rebuilding trust and I will be very happy to be an open book to you. But, for now, that kind of R would be one-sided on my part and decidedly NOT what you have asked for."
WOW!! You sir are incredibly gifted in putting very clear, concise, firm, and assertive thoughts to the 'puter. Again, I could not have put this better. Thank you.
Quote: Then, quit being an open book.
AMEN, brother. BTW, please keep following my thread of hope, your insight is incredibly helpful.
On Fri, I had a father-Daughter dance to attend with my 5 year old D. Friday evenings are usually MY evenings to be with our children. My W asked me if I was planning on taking our son also? I responded that it was not a father, daughter, son dance and that I was not planning to take him. She said, well, it IS your weekend and you had better figure something out because I have plans that I am not willing to change. Later, she relented and said she would stay home with our S until the dance was over, but then she was going out so I would need to drive both of our children 1/2 hour to get them to bed. Nice. Thanks. My W soon came to me and said, maybe my mother will watch our S. My W then left w/o asking her mother anything so I asked my MIL if she was willing to watch my S while I took my D to her dance. She said she would.
While on my way to pick up my D, my W left me a message that she was already gone to her destination and our children could be picked up at the babysitter's house across the street. I arrived to pick up our daughter and our D was not appropriately dressed to go to a dance. We were already late and I didn't think I had time to change her so we went to my MILs's house so I could drop off our S. Both my MIL and my SIL tell me that my D needs to be in a dress because we are going to a dance. I know they are right so I took my D back and change her. I am steaming inside because my W didn't do this before she left early. Anyway, we went to the dance, my D looked beautiful, and we had a great time. What rubs me wrong the most is that my W is so pissed at me that my children are impacted by her acting out: (1) my beautiful daughter wasn't dressed for the dance when I arrived, even thought my W left early; (2)no effort was made by my W to watch our son while I attended a father-daughter dance with our daughter; and (3) according to my W, she didn't even think about either issue because it was MY weekend to be with the children and I should have told her what I needed from her. I do know that if the roles were reversed, I would have made sure our child was properly prepared and that I didn't put my own plans ahead of our children's needs, but that is must me. Perhaps she is right about me needing to take care of these issues, I just didn't foresee her being so egocentric. Right now everything is about her.
This weekend, I talked with my S about her recent drinking episodes. I told her that my concerns are that she is drinking when she is the only one home with our children. She then proceeded to tell me that TH evening was a mistake (she was brought home drunk by a GF after a date) and that she was NOT drunk on W evening. Unfortunately, I saw her on W and she had plenty more than the one glass of wine she claims, plus she drove herself home! *wince* Additionally, on F (remember, she left early to go) she went to a party with friends of hers and I am certain she stayed the night because she was drunk. <-- Less of a problem, she was not with my children, but a problem nonetheless. That's 3 straight nights of being drunk.
You see, my W is a recovering drug addict (14 years) who attended A.A. for 12 years. Her behavior lately is closer to an addict than someone dealing with a cheating S. THAT concerns me for her and our children. A long time ago, my W told me that addicts are the mosts manipulative people in the world. My W insists she is not an alcoholic, but I told her today that I was more concerned that she IS an addict and I am afraid for her.
Today, I also told her that I was no longer willing to take our childresn EVERY friday night. I told her I would take them from Friday evening until Sunday evening every other weekend. I also told her that I needed to change my weeknights with our children from T & TH to M & TH. She seemed to agree, but we will see.
The problem I am having with right now is talking with anyone anyone who knows her about my experiences with her because all or our friends are mutual. If my W hears what I have said, I am then a liar in her mind. I know that I haven't lied, but to be safe, I need to limit my conversations with anyone who might talk with her about what I have said.
I am feeling weak from my wife's dating, her failure to place our children's needs before her need to go out (& drink), and her anger towards me. One thing I can say, I am not giving up on her or our M. The fight has just begun, as far as I am concerned. Wish me well.
You sound better than when I first started posting to you, HH. I love your "thread of hope" comment . MUCH BETTER.
I would like to "caution" you against having ANY expectations of your wife. No expectations = 0 Letdowns. It's just a wise rule of thumb.
I'm glad you were able to make it the Father/Daughter Dance. Sorry for the drama brought on by your wife, who definitely thinks the world revolves around HER at this time. Expect more of this behavior.
All right enough pussyfootin' around here...
The issue of alcohol abuse.... If she is not trapped in an all out addiction, she soon will be with such indulgence as there has been lately. We already know she has an addictive personality from your post. She's just not being very smart...and this is going to determine how your sitch turns, HH. You can't DB if there is an issue of substance abuse. I hope this does not aggravate the problems you already have.
You are setting boundaries (every other weekend with kids). GOOD FOR YOU. Now just stick to it.
Amy, you are a Godsend for me and my PMA; my personal angel.
Quote: You sound better than when I first started posting to you, HH.
I love your "thread of hope" comment . MUCH BETTER.
And this after I find out she is out dating other men without doing a good job of hiding it. I have known all along that I am DBing alone. That's OK, I know I am fighting the good fight. I have told her that I am aware that she has the right to date. I only wish for her to be careful and safe for herself and extra careful for our children. I think she took it to heart.
Quote: I would like to "caution" you against having ANY expectations of your wife.
No expectations = 0 Letdowns. It's just a wise rule of thumb.
You see, I have none, except where it comes to our children, and now I have even less expectations there. That's OK, I will make sure they have enough love and attention.
Quote: I'm glad you were able to make it the Father/Daughter Dance. Sorry for the drama brought on by your wife, who definitely thinks the world revolves around HER at this time. Expect more of this behavior.
I am ecstatic that we made it! We both had a great time bonding with love and fun. And yes, my W does believe that the world revolves around her. I've seen this forever and unfortunately encouraged it unwittingly. I do definitely expect more of the same behavior. Her response when I called her on selfish behavior today was that she didn't intend to do that. I tell her regardless of your intention, others are impacted by your behavior, at least take a look at that. She said she would. Unortunately, she sees very little with regards to herself. Great set of blinders she wears when she looks at herself and her behavior.
Others believe my love for and devotion to her is codependence. Some also say I am delusional. Perhaps they all are right.
Quote: The issue of alcohol abuse....
If she is not trapped in an all out addiction, she soon will be with such indulgence as there has been lately.
I know, and have already spoken to her about this being a grave fear of mine. She tells me, "You know I am not an alcoholic. I just made a stupid mistake (on TH evening). Why can't you just let it go?"
I tell her I am extremely concerned because she is home alone with our children and I am not there for our children. She then tells me, "I don't drink at home alone with them, even after they have gone to sleep. I am not 100% certain this is a true statement. I am not there to attest to it. I am scared for my children's well-being. I don't believe she would purposely hurt or neglect them, but when you're drunk, she like the rest of us, don't make the best decisions. I believe she is a good mother, but I also know that she has a tendency to isolate herself from those who will call her on her sh*t, when they see it, SCARY thought.
Quote: We already know she has an addictive personality from your post. She's just not being very smart...and this is going to determine how your sitch turns, HH. You can't DB if there is an issue of substance abuse. I hope this does not aggravate the problems you already have.
I know, I know. I am DBing alone. But, as I told her tonight: I haven't given up hope on our M. She said that the fact that I haven't given up on our M concerns her for me because she feels I will be hurt more later. I told her, my heart is already broken. Let me worry about that. I will quit when I believe it's time to quit. She said, "Well, we are getting a divorce. It's too late." To which I responded, "We are still married, NOW is the BEST time to fight for our M! I haven't lost my ability to keep fighting because our M is in trouble." I am NOT optmistic thought. I did tell my W that if the work I am doing on me makes me a better person it was worth it. I also know that I need to be a better person to be her husband. Again, the work I am doing is worth it.
I know she can't figure me out. My PMA grows more every day and it's going to infect her too. She just doesn't see it coming yet. I get stronger every day too!
Quote: You are setting boundaries (every other weekend with kids).
GOOD FOR YOU.
Now just stick to it.
I WILL. I WILL. This is only the beginning of me shaping my world to be one that will suit me and my family very well.
Quote: You are doing fine.
I feel like I am doing fine. Thank you so much for chiming in Amy. I love the insight and encouragement you so generously bestow upon me.
Just reading your post really gives ME a lot of hope. You sound very good considering and it appears that you have your head on straight. Keep up the good work, you sound better every day and with a PMA like yours, who could say otherwise?
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
. MUCH BETTER.