MY infidelity became known to my S 2-1/2 months ago. My A was over long before that. I would greatly appreciate the perspective of those who have been on my W's side of an affair. I would also appreciate everyone's direction and support in keeping my head in the game. I know that nothing is more important than fighting for my marriage and keeping my family together.
My W was destroyed, hurt and pissed by my A. She lost all respect for and trust in me, which is understandable. She immediately wanted to get a D. I was forced into going to an arbritrator to pacify her and to avoid a legal battle. I DO NOT want a divorce, I want to make amends and reconcile our marriage. To date, she barely tolerates me. It goes in waves.
While at the arbritrator, her anger was even more pronounced, as she stated that she just wanted out of the marriage. The arbritator finally told her that being aggressive, nasty, and angry with me and him was not productive; a divorce takes 6 months. When my S went to the bathroom, he looked at me flabergasted and said, "Sheesh, she's really pissed at you." I told him yes, and explained my A.
The arbritrator also told us that WE are NOT the important ones, that our children are the innocents and THEY are the important ones. We both agreed. We have been to co-parenting counseling sessions together. This all makes me so sad. What makes matters worse is that our son is so young he needs to be with his mommy LOTS.
When the arbritator asked who would be the petitioner, I said I would. I had time to reflect. I DO NOT want a D. I told my W that and that I would NOT be the petitioner. She said she would and sent the information to the arbitrator by e-mail. To date, I still have not been served, and that was over 2 weeks ago. I am trying to NOT read too much into anything that does or does not happen between us, regardless of whether it looks positive or negative.
Anyway, I have read DB (twice) and am about half way through DR. I loaned DB to my W, in hopes that her curiosity would nudge her to open it. She did, but said that it didn't apply to us. She also commented on my highlighting marks, trying to read my mind as to why certain parts were highlighted. I asked her to disregard the highlighting and I assured her that she would see us in several stories. I then assured her that it was her choice to open it up or not. I am hopeful she will give it another try.
At this point, mostly what I get from my S is anger and aloofness. She tells me that we are separated and that she is single and her private time is private. She asks me constantly if I have a girlfriend and accuses me of having hickeys. It's not even possible. I understand that comes from a lack of trust in me. Anyway, she told me tonight that she went on a "business dinner" and I asked her if it was a date. She insisted that it started out that way but she is not interested in him. She is not interested in getting serious with anyone. I let it go at that, as hard as that was. I know that I can't control what she does. She says she is single and apparently is going on dates. *shrug* That hurts, but I can't make it not happen.
My thoughts and feelings tonight were hurt and bitterness. I need to try the techniques in CH 5 of DR. We see each other pretty regularly because of our 2 children. I don't talk about our R or M. We talk about our children or her needs. What I do is help her out whenever she makes me aware of a need. She will often wrap her need with our children's need. I have the hardest time telling her no. Always have. Is saying no in line with doing a 180?? I seem to be really stuck in doing more of the same.
I am deathly afraid of not going along with what I've always gone along with before because I do not want a D. Although doing more of the same certainly seems like going down cheeseless tunnel after cheeseless tunnel and assisting her in loading us on the runaway downhill train to Divorceville, USA. Again, HELP!
I had a recent conversation with someone who knows both of us. S/he told me that I need to forgive myself, to stop taking abuse from my W, and to stop being a doormat for my W. This same person also said that s/he has been greatly impressed with my patience in dealing with my S in the aftermath of my A and that I can't pay for my mistake forever. All of that advice is the most sound and lucid advice I have received. S/he also said to get myself set up in my own place AND to continue being patient, but from more of a distance and stop being so available to help out. I believe I am going to proceed in that direction. Any thoughts from DBers??
It's been since 2-1/2 months since my A became public and I know that this is all still a really fresh wound for my W. She asked me to move out and I did 2-1/2 months ago. I have been supporting our household with 100% of my pay. My sister and brother-in-law have been extremely kind with their hospitality by allowing me to stay in their spare BR for now. As I said, I've got to stop staying there and move into my own place that is closer to our children.
We have a 5 year old daughter and an 8 month old son. I need to get a place of my own, because it seems that our current separation is looking permanent. Everyone who cares about me tells me to back off and stop doing for her when she calls. I am having serious trouble doing that because I have ALWAYS cared for and done for her. Unfortunately, it's feeling like I am being used so that she can go out and play the field. My sister says stop! Do you want to be her 2nd husband; the one who does for her while she shares her bed with someone else?
I feel that I would be greasing the tracks to Divorceville by putting the brakes on my helpfulness to her. My head tells me one thing, but my heart tells me the oppossite. HELP!
More info about us. We have been married 6 years and my W too often told me she wanted a D. She also asked me to move out several times. This was all long before my A. My feeling even before my A was that my W longed to be single and childless. Unfortunately, my affair was the bullet she needed to shoot our marriage in the heart. That makes my mistake even harder to swallow.
My W also has 1 really dear marriage cancer friend. Unfortunately, this friend is the little devil that I envision sitting on my W's shoulder whispering marital doomsday advice. Sad. I don't know what her other friends are telling her about our current marital state, but I hope it's not THAT!
Tonight was a real blow to my willingness to keep on keepin' on for my marriage. I love my W dearly and I do believe that with SBT assistance we will have the tools we need to build the wonderful M and friendship that we, and our children, deserve. Again tonight, our daughter told me that she is mad at me and sad because I do not live with her. THAT breaks my heart.
BTW, I have a call in to schedule my DB counseling sessions.
It is good that you are so emphatic that you want to save your marriage.
Quote: MY infidelity became known to my S 2-1/2 months ago. My A was over long before that.
Whilst your A may have been over long before your wife found out, it has been only two and a half months since your W found out which is not a long time. It does take a betrayed spouse time and support to deal with the fact that their spouse betrayed them.
Quote: I had a recent conversation with someone who knows both of us. S/he told me that I need to forgive myself, to stop taking abuse from my W, and to stop being a doormat for my W.
I sense very strongly from this that the someone is a 'she'.
From what you have written about your wife, it does not sound to me that she is abusing you - it sounds like she is having a really difficult time dealing with your infidelity.
You mention that you have read Divorce Remedy - are you sure you have understood it? The main goal of this process is to work on yourself, and work on the negative aspects of yourself that led to the breakdown in the marriage to make yourself a better person, better able to deal with the difficulties in your marriage and make you more attractive to your spouse.
You talk about your affair- what led you to have an affair? how have you changed things in yourself/lifestyle/marriage to ensure that you will not have an affair again? These are issues you need to deal with regardless of whether your wife stays with you or not.
Well, your sitch seems to be pretty complicated but aren't they all.
I had two reactions to your post. First, I started to become somewhat upset at these people telling you to "stop doing for her" and "stop being her doormat". Sure, that could have been advice for you BEFORE your A but YOU are the one who had the affair. Do they just dismiss that fact?
The second reaction was that DB/DR is read by and practiced by people in your position but I think some of it's specific principals are not really suited for the "other side". I think that's where you are getting confused. You are doing 180's and such but I really think you need to read the section in DR about infidelity and what the spouse in your position should do and focus on those things first.
I also recommend you check out some other books on infidelity such as Surviving Infidelity and find AmyC's and Heatherg's threads if you have not already. They are both DBing from your side of the fence and have some really good insight. Actually, I hope Amy will comment on your sitch. I will ask her to.
So, what I see in your sitch is a marriage that had a lot of issues, and honestly, many of them may be your W's issues but by virtue of your actions, she is putting everything on you. I can see how your friends and family who know your history may be telling you to stop doing things for her, etc.
All in all, it's hard to tell what you should do right now. I think the parts of DB/DR you should embrace are the ones that tell you to focus on you and understanding what YOU can do to become a better man no matter what your W does.
What I also think is interesting about your sitch is thinking about what we would be saying to your W if she were posting here. I suppose it would be a lot about forgiveness and owning up to her part of the bad marriage. That said, I would refrain from giving her any more homework. We all have the tendency to want to share what we learn in our journey of self-discovery but too often, that sharing comes off as condescension and not helpfulness. Some things are better left to be discovered by each individual on their own time. I know it sucks because you feel that IF she really took DB to heart, she would be a more willing partner in all this but right now, she is not ready.
In any event, I would suggest reading more, reflecting more, maybe trying to rely less on these friends and family who may or may not be concerned about the preservation of your marriage, and really looking hard at your relationship with your W. Decide if you REALLY want to save marriage because you love your W or if it's for other reasons like the kids. IF you are doing it for the right reasons and you think you can make changes in YOU that will improve the R, should one be possible in the future, then by all means, DB your heart out and understand that DB is as much about buying time and preventing you from doing things to further damage your marriage as it is actively saving it, IMHO. Give time a chance. Work on you, post your experience and seek help.
Last thing. Are you seeing a therapist on your own? If not, you should look into it. It really can help.
Believe me, I know this is a really fresh wound for my W. I also know that I created this wound. Despite my efforts to remain patient and calm, I do find impatience creeping into my head and heart and causing me grief and uncertainty.
When I am settled and in my right mind, I am well aware that my decision to have an A is ALL my fault. I also am able to keep in mind that I owe my wife 5 things: 1. patience 2. love 3. kindness 4. honesty 5. respect
Also, I do know that working on me and fighting to rebuild my marriage and preserve my family are the MOST important aspects of my life. I need to quit listening to those who care about me because most of them are not PRO-marriage. I AM!
GH, TY for your insight. I am in need of positive direction and encouragement in the murky marital waters I am in. I am definitely working on myself right now. I certainly have the time to do so. I am working on accepting invitations to DO things to occupy myself and be happier in a not so happy time. Other thoughts on your response are:
Quote: Sure, that could have been advice for you BEFORE your A but YOU are the one who had the affair. Do they just dismiss that fact?
No, they don't dismiss my A because I own my poor decision and live with the ramifications everyday. I do not dump any of my mistake on my W. I miss my W and our children every day I am not with them.
Quote: ...but I really think you need to read the section in DR about infidelity and what the spouse in your position should do and focus on those things first.
I have read it, but will re-read it! Clearly, I need a refresher and need to redefine patience for myself with regard to my W and our sitch.
Quote: I think the parts of DB/DR you should embrace are the ones that tell you to focus on you and understanding what YOU can do to become a better man no matter what your W does.
Quote: I would refrain from giving her any more homework.
I certainly agonized about that and gave it to her anyway. Apparently my bad. Should I ask for it back for my use? I have read it twice already. I just don't want to push any buttons right now.
Quote: Decide if you REALLY want to save marriage because you love your W or if it's for other reasons like the kids.
I REALLY do want to save my marriage because of my love for my W. And of course, I want to save my marriage to keep my family together. I believe that is the best scenario. I also believe that with a new DB/DR toolbox and skilled use of those tools, we will build the marriage that we both want and deserve: one that is happy, loving, giving, respectful, patient and honest.
I will continue my reading, especially the relevant books you recommended and continue working on myself. Additionally, I will steer clear of talking with those in my life who are not PRO-marriage, because my marriage is most important to ME, not them.
I understand that saving my marriage is about working on ME; THAT part I get to keep regardless of how my M works itself out. Also, I am focused again on WHO determines when my W is done hurting and being angry and uncertain. It's NOT me, it's my W and I certainly owe her that respect and patience. But I do still hope, despite how dark it all looks.
In closing, GH, thanks for your input. I need help staying in the game and staying out of bitterness and impatience. I'll try to find AmyC's and Heatherg's threads. I need everyone's encouragement and cheerleading to battle through my own fears; to DB my M.
Grasshopper asked me to hop over (no pun intended - oh what the heck, yes it was! ) to take a look at your sitch.
I'll confirm it. You have a nasty one, it's true.
You screwed up royally and shook the very foundation of your marriage.
Welcome aboard.
You can have this seat next to me .
I'll tell you what the primary thing is that you must do before you can be successful at any other strategy. Shed the guilt. You are dragging it around and it shows in everything you do. If you are sorry, God forgives you and now you have no reason not to forgive yourself. THAT MUST happen BEFORE your wife will even see you in such a light that she can even imagine TRYING to forgive you. You screwed up. So has every other human being. No one is without blemish. Yes, you broke the sacred trust between you and your wife, but do you know exactly when it was that you lost her respect? I'll tell you when it was. It was very minute you became a contortionist trying to satisfy her every want or need. ENOUGH of that! You made a mistake. A dreadful one yes, but here is what separates the men from the boys....did you LEARN from it? Do you now see the value of your wife, marriage and family through an entirely new set of eyes? I bet you do. THAT is a lesson that many people don't get. YOU did and it wasn't so you can lose everything you love and live in regret for the rest of your life.
A couple of questions for you:
1)How did your wife find out about the affair?
and
2)Did you get the opportunity to tell her exactly WHY you are sorry?
I apologize if my post seems harsh.
In a way though, it HAS to be and I know that from personal experience.
It takes a lot to walk outside of the wall of guilt you live within.
But I will help you get outside of it if you want to.
Hello AmyC. Thank you for coming to my thread of pain. I greatly appreciate your time, concern and thoughts. And yes, I do know I have created a nasty one.
Quote: I'll tell you what the primary thing is that you must do before you can be successful at any other strategy. Shed the guilt. You are dragging it around and it shows in everything you do.
I know. I am working on that everyday. I thought I was farther along on that front but I seem to be a glutton for taking my W's punishment/anger. I just feel so guilty. I know that God has forgiven me, my issue is that I have so much trouble getting away from my worst critic and judge: ME!
Quote: Do you know exactly when it was that you lost her respect? I'll tell you when it was. It was very minute you became a contortionist trying to satisfy her every want or need.
I see that now, and I still am having trouble not doing the same thing with her every whim. I am deathly afraid of pushing us to our D by doing a 180 now. But I guess more of the same is helping to kill my M now, isn't it?
Quote: Do you now see the value of your wife, marriage and family through an entirely new set of eyes? I bet you do. THAT is a lesson that many people don't get. YOU did....
I do see my family with a new set of eyes. I want my W to want me back as her S. I want to be home with my W and our children. I am so saddened by all of this. It is very clear to me that the work I need to be doing is all on me.
Quote: 1)How did your wife find out about the affair?
My affair was with a woman with loose lips and word leaked out to an acquaintance of my mother-in-law. My MIL confronted me and told me, "I don't know if this is true and I don't care, but if it is, it needs to stop NOW. I don't want my daughter hurt." It had already stopped, so that was not an issue. My mother-in-law then took it upon herself to inform my W's sister and brother of my mistake. My brother-in-law is an addict and is extremely unstable. He got drunk in February and came over to "kick my a**." So that's how my W found out about my horrible mistake. IMHO my MIL knew her son would behave in the way that he did. To make matters worse, my MIL has been the captain of the USS Infidelity herself. So much for expecting honor amongst those who betray their spouses. I know I didn't deserve any breaks in concealing my disaster. Bad judgement all around, especially ME.
and
Quote: 2)Did you get the opportunity to tell her exactly WHY you are sorry?
Yes, I did. I told her that I was a coward for not being willing to come forth to her to express my stupid thoughts. She told me that I should have and she would have told me that we shoudl just get a D (as she had all too often expressed to me over our M), which confirms my worst fears of speaking with her about my stupid thoughts. None of that is any excuse though, I know. I did assure her that this would never happen again because of my work on me and our R. I am fully aware that I have blown apart the very foundation of our marriage- the trust and respect. I know that my affair is MY mistake, but that decision is so terribly weak and dishonorable, which makes it that much more difficult to forgive myself.
AmyC, your post did not seem harsh. It was exactly what I needed to hear and I do welcome any insight and help you may offer me to heal myself and also in my attempts at DBing my M with my beloved S. Any thoughts, prayers, encouragement, direction are greatly appreciated. I am a VERY needy poster. I am surrounded by family, friends and acquaintances who are NOT pro-marriage. The most important task in my life right now is to save my M and to preserve my family. I need all the help and guidance I can get.
BTW, tomorrow I have a phone consultation with Vernetta. I'll post when I am done with it.
GH, thank you for caring so much and for taking the time and energy for someone who is on "the other side," as you have said. Your kindness is greatly appreciated. Thank you, friend.
I feel for you. I am in almost exactly same situation. I have not got much help or advice,(thanks GH) but am trying all I can to keep us together. I will follow your situation, and hopefully find some useful help here also. We both screwed up, and we both love and want to keep our spouses. I havent got DB yet, but have read DR and there is not much advice to our side of the situation. Phone consult has helped some, and local counselor is someone to vent to, but no clear path to follow to find way back to the heart.......
) to take a look at your sitch.
.
