GG I hope your get away does you and your H a world of good. Yes we have to get to the point where we can trust them no matter if we are with them or away. I still think your H is home to stay and I bet he is going to miss you like crazy. Might be just what he needs. Know that I am thinking of you while you are gone and keeping all of you in my prayers. You have been a wonderful source of inspiration and support for me. Know that you have done everything possible for the right reasons to save your marriage and no matter what the future holds you are going to be OK.
Wesse it was good to hear from you and I hope everything is going very well for you. How long has it been since you reconciled and does your H act like nothing ever happened?
Orson I already had found you on your new thread. Thanks for stopping by and I will be over at your thread regularly to lend you support. My H has not been back to the doctor but will see his internist again soon and have his colersterol level checked to see how the meds are working. My H also quit his part-time jobs and is a house husband these days and I love it. He does have an application in for a civil service position that would put him working in the building next to the one I work in. We are looking forward to this as a new beginning. For the first time in 30 years we will be working the same hours and will have evenings and weekends for ourselves. We have really learned to appreciate our time together.
Jenny I am thinking of you too and wishing you well. Hope things are still going in a positive direction for you.
Ronmom hope you are reading, reading, reading, and backing off your H. Let him come to you. Follow the DB book and come here to vent and find support. We are here for you.
Now for me and my current situation. H is doing all he can to show me he really loves me and is happy to be at home. Last night we talked a little in bed. Seems pillow talk is where we can open up to each other the best. He is now at the point where he is confused as how he could have had an ema and says he wished it never had happened. He also wants to continue our therapy and spend lots of time together. Sounds good to me.
H and the therapist are wondering what it is going to take for me to build trust again so I have been thinking about that issue. I think I have figured it out and I am not sure how H is going to take it. I am going to bounce it off you folks first. In order for me not to worry about him and trust him again I think I need to protect myself financialy in a legal way. What I am thinking is that I want him to sign papers drawn up by a lawyer that state if anything happens to me the money in my deferred compensation account and my seperate assets from my inheritance from my family will go to our daughter. You see the biggest nightmare I am having is something happening to me and H spending my money I have worked all my life for on the Slug or some other woman. What do you think?
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 01-13-2000).]
it is I....the weary. GG suggested I keep writing here although this is not the thread for me....but you, GG, Wesse and Jenny are such life lines for me. must be the age. anyway, with GG leaving town, i hope you will check the postings for my cries for help. i am trying but not as well as you did it. with our daughters getting married the struggles and pain are so difficult. one daughter called last night wanting us to meet her at her future inlaws tomorrow. i fell apart crying, saying i can't do this without dad..i think she was disappointed. after much crying through the night i decided too bad for him...and i am going. this morning he called at 6:45 and said he couldn't go because he was moving this weekend (which I knew...from an efficiency to a one bedroom). Mind you it is all furnished...he only has his clothes and some medical books and he could do that tonight if planning his daughter's wedding (which he is paying for...at least half of it) was important. plus it is a brunch tomorrow but we could have gotten up at 7 and been there by 11 (we live in a small town) but i guess he doesn't care enough the way i do. i hope i am doing the right thing. thenthis afternoon, a few minutes ago when i was packing, he called to tell me he was about to go into the OR for an emergency and was i leaving. i said i was meeting the D tomorrow...he said was i leaving to go there tonight. i told him where i was going (to a friend) and i would leave the number on his machine. he said OK. i said he could call if he wanted to talk and then said, 'see ya.' this is a big thing for me...but i am trying. GG says if i have any hope this is it...pray for me dear ladies dear friends. i want to be on this topic someday.
I am short on time now, but I will get back to you. This sounds like a major LB to me. I do understand your concerns, but perhaps there is a less drastic way! wesse
WAY TO GO RONMOM!!!!!!! I am so proud of you for putting your daughter's needs ahead of your hurt. I am sure it is not easy. Also, the "See ya" was perfect! I"ll post again soon.
JW: Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate them and hope that you are correct.
I completely understand your feelings about not wanting Ow to get her hands on your assets, I was the same way. When h and ow were fooling around I was very angry that she was going to get my h, my best friend, my mechanic and half of our assets (community property state.) Ow's a total golddigger and for some reason must have gotten it into her head (I wonder if he put that idea there?) that h has a lot of money. He doesn't. I was the big breadwinner in the family. I never minded sharing. He also dressed real nicely, (I have good taste) but ow makes a lot more than h does. And of course, h drove a Range Rover (which I bought for him). But, it wasn't new, we got a real good deal on it. So I guess she thought she was going to get her hands on some $$$. And she would have, too, but not his. After the settlement, the well would run dry, and she probably would have dumped him.
Anyway, all that can sure cause a lot of anger and wear & tear on the trust.
I think losing the assets was the final insult. However, I have to agree with Wesse, that you should really rethink that move and come up with something less restrictive. That probably isn't the best way to show him you trust him. There are other ways to show trust while protecting yourself. I know Wesse will come up with a better idea. Good luck, JW!
All: Please keep giving Ronmom a kick in the pants every now and then for me, while I'm gone....Repeat after me....detach, let go, stop the pursuit. Repeat refrain....
Wesse I am trying to figure out what LB is. I probably should know but don't. Humm its not backslide or last resort so please tell me what it means. It so happened that the opportunity to talk to my H about this came up when I got home from work last night before I read your reply. He took it very well. I explained to him that I had been thinking about what he and therapist had asked in our last meeting about what it would take for me to put the past behind me and trust him again. I told him I wanted to be able to forget about what happened too. I told him it is time that we put together a will. Everyone should have one and we are both getting older every day. He agreed. So I explained to him what I wanted to do and he said that at one time that would have made him angry but if it would make me feel better its ok with him. I also told him that it only matters if I die and that my hope is that we will both live to be 100 and go in our sleep snuggled up to each other and smiling. He liked that idea but said that us both living to 100 most likely isn't going to happen. Now weather or not I will go through with it I don't know. Just knowing he was willing to do that for me helps some.
Ronmom I am proud of you and your hard work. You are doing so much better. Please try to focus on your daughters weddings and how joyous this time should be for them. Share in their joy and let them see you smiling and happy for them. It will do your H good to see you smiling and happy for the daughters. This is another way of you showing him that you have changed and don't always have to have things your way to be happy. I know you have been all over these boards because I have been watching and you are getting lots of good advice and learning so much. Remember the receipe over on the MLC board. (see I know) Stay positive by keeping your PMA and focusing on the good things happening around you. GG is right on with her advice, detach and stop the pursuit.
Well H and I have the next three days together. I am excited about that. We are going to listen to Micheles first two tapes in Keeping Love Alive today and join in the new discussion group that starts I think later today on the tapes.
Wesse thanks for your help. Will be looking forward to hearing from you again.
GG I know you are still out there and haven't left on your trip yet. Please know I will be thinking of you and your H while you are gone and I will do my best to kick Ronmom in the pants whenever she needs it. You have been doing an excellent job for her just as you did for me. GG on the subject of fearing the OW will end up with your assets, I understand. My H is agreeable to what I want to do. And in all fairness the funds I am setting aside for our daughter would never have been there if it wasn't for my parents leaving me a little nest egg. Mom asked me hold the nest egg as seperate property so I am trying to honor her request and at the same time provide for those I love. H admits our lives are so much better now that we are not burried in debt. It has been so much fun to buy things for our home and for our kids and grandson. I have been generous and now I need to know that after 30 years of working hard and struggling to get to this point someone like the Slug isn't going to end up with it all. Thanks for understanding. Besides that when H first told me he was committed to the Slug and wanted out he said money wasn't important to him and he couldn't be bought. What a laugh I don't want him if I have to buy him. I don't want to ever wonder if he stayed with me because of money.
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 01-15-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 01-15-2000).]
the term LB means "lovebuster", it is terminology from the marriagebuilders.com website. The theory is that we are supposed to be depositing love units into our accounts, and when we do contrary things, they constitute lovebusting.
But, I respectfully disagree with the others, who have suggested that your requests for some security were AT ALL unreasonable. You sound like a very smart woman! I am glad to hear, that you followed YOUR own heart and instincts in this matter...and that it was well recieved by your H.
Only you know what is best for you...glad you knew enough to follow your own wise counsel.
I am glad that your H was so supportive of your concerns about your estate. I think that he has made tremendous strides away from the addiction of his ema.
Also, I apologize for throwing in a "foreign" term. LB does stand for "lovebusting" and it includes doing anything that might be upsetting to your spouse. During the trauma of my H's ea, I read many books and was really helped by several books written by Dr. Willard F. Harley. I particularly liked his book, HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS BUILDING AN AFFAIR PROOF MARRIAGE. My H and I both read that as part of our recovery and found it helpful in our talks about what went wrong what both of us need to build a happier and more secure future.
His basic premise concerning lovebusting is that- right or wrong - we should all strive to be a source of love and comfort and not a source of pain to our spouse. Your reacions to your H's ema are almost a textbook example of what he recommends. He recommends that ALL contact between spouse and op end whatever the costs. He explains in a very simplified and perhaps somewhat manipulative manner how we can increase our spouse's attraction to us by actions that he terms as a deposits into their love bank and how we can destroy that attraction by actions referred to as withdrawals from this love bank. His basic concepts are outlined at his website, marriagebuilders.com, but to fully understand and put his ideas in proper perspective I needed to read his books. I read several of his books before finding the website.
You know that I am no doormat. In fact, I need support with patience, but I found his principles as helpful as and very similiar to Michelle's.
His writings helped me deal with restoring security as did AFTER THE AFFAIR (Was that Michelle's?) However, I have not yet found a source dealing with the conflicting emotions of anger, hurt, bitterness that I have struggled with after the immediate crisis of the affair was over.
Regarding your estate concerns, I wholly agree with you. My concern was timing, but I was wrong and, I'm glad I was. You may find that changing your beneficiary on your 401K is fairly simple and does not require an attorney. However, I hope you will talk to an attorney (surprise, surprise) to explore your options, find out what distribution of your property would be made if you did not have a will, and what your spouse's rights are to contest if you do have a will (In our state a spouse has an absolute right to a certain portion of the estate regardless of what the will says and can contest the will to protect that interest. In determining this entitlement everything he gets is considered including property that passes to him outside the will such as insurance proceeds, 401k proceeds to him as named beneficiary, etc.)
I certainly don't mean to imply that your H would contest your estate plan because your family seems very close and he would probably have great respect for your wishes. My thinking is that information sometimes helps us in planning and making big decisions.
Your H's attitude about this at this time is wonderful. He seems to have great respect for you. Regarding your security/trust concerns, if writing a will or changing the beneficiary of your 401K will help with that, do it. If you keep it simple, you can easily make changes later as time goes by if you need to. We should ALL review our estate plan ever 5 years or so anyway.
For me the insecurity issues continue to be troublesome at times. I have virtually no worrisome thoughts about his contacting or becoming reinvolved with ow, but I do now know that he is capable of breaking his vows without a great deal of conscience. I think my problems are primarily related to seeing her regularly. Seeing her always pricks old wounds and makes me feel unattractive and inadequate. Her strengths are my weaknesses, and that doesn't help. Also, my feelings of insecurity seem to have more to do with my H being different from the person I thought he was. I know that I can't always be the best looking, most feminine, etc. and that I shouldn't have to be. I can't get past the feeling that my H doesn't quite get that and that he is one of those men who are attracted by the temporary glitz of the newer models. I also have a problem in that ow and my H share a lot of the same characteristics - good and bad. Gee, I wish she had been a cheap slut - maybe I wouldn't feel this way. Where am I going here? I didn't mean to ramble on.
How are things with the grandchild? This new family member is a refreshing bit of history in the making for your family. I enjoy your grandchild vicariously. Although I think you and I are close in age, it will probably be several years at least before we have a wedding or a grandchild in our family picture.
Good morning SAM and Wesse. Thankyou for your replys and your support.
Yesterday H and I took a long drive in a scenic area and listened to Michele's first tape in the Keeping Love Alive series. It helped open some communication between us about what happened and how we are doing now and the future. And guess what, my H thanked me for the way I handled this whole situation and all I have done to save our marriage. WOW that felt so gooood. We talked about his needs and my needs. Yes Wesse I have the book. I asked him if he felt that we were going to make it and he said sure we are and squeezed my hand. I think I have to agree with our therapist now that we have made tremendous progress. The tape told about how men and women have different ways of communication and very different ways of trying to feel connected in a relationship. Most of this was review for me after 6 months of reading everything I could get my hands on but I felt a strong need for my H to understand the things that I have learned to so he could see that all of this is so common and that by working together we can have a better marriage than either of us thought possible.
Wesse patience has been the hardest thing for me too. Neither H nor I are strong in the patience category but we are learning. I do have His needs Her needs and After the Affair, The Case Against Divorce and probably 5 or 6 more. Divorce Busting being the first book I bought after finding this site. I am sure Barns and Noble stock went up during my pursuit of answers and help. LOL. Some I have read cover to cover like Divorce Busting and some I have read parts of. I really like Frank Pittman's Grow Up.
I am feeling pretty good right now. My H's involvement with the OW isn't hard for me to understand. Before this happened he was my best friend and we did have a great relationship that over a few years went through some major problems. Work schedules that put him and OW together 50 or 60 hours a week and left no time off during the same hours for H and I to spend together. We were two ships passing by each other. I would be on my to work just a few minutes before he was getting home from his full time job and he would be gone to his part-time job where OW also worked before I got home and I sometimes didn't see him at all except for a few hours maybe on the weekend. No relationship can handle that over a long period. Big problem and no matter how much I asked for time with him he always put his jobs first. Well we have learned the hard way that "we" must always come first. From now on we will both work day shift jobs and have our off work time together. I don't have to see OW the way you do and lucky for the Slug I haven't accidently run into her either.
Our little grandson is now 12 weeks old and weighs almost 12 pounds. He is wonderful and we both adore him. There is no better feeling in the world than to hold that wonderful warm soft little body next to your chest and look into those little blue eyes. My H and I love to talk about all our plans of things we want to do for and with our grandchildren. H can't hardly wait for him to big enough to play with. Right now we hold him alot and rock him and just talk to him about all kinds of things he doesn't understand but he seems to like the attention. We can't wait for trips to Disneyland and Little League and all that stuff.
You said you thought we were close in age. Well I am 48 and H is 51. Our daughter is 27 so it was time we became grandparents. Another very rewarding thing is my daughter has become even closer to me. Now that she is a mom she seems to understand me a lot more and has even told me she is surprised at how much time and attention a baby takes and she is surprised at how much she worries about the baby. I told her welcome to Motherhood and not to worry he is just fine.
Gotta go crawl back in bed with H and snuggle. It is very early in the morning here on the west coast and I want to snuggle a little before we start this new day. I'll check back here later.
Sorry I have not written in a day or two. I am visiting friends. left H a 'see ya' message off I went. Met with daughter and her fiance and his parents yesterday. The wedding will probably be 2001 unless they can find a place for this fall. I wa quiet most of the time as his mom is the party planner type and we are all sharing inthe cost. Anyway, daughter said she was hurt her dad wasn't there. He gave a lame excuse, 'i have things to do.' when i go home tomorrow i decided i will not call him. he can call me. i am just so frightened about what path to take in my life. i would have these fears even if he was living at home and the marriage was working. i have always made excuses...kids needed me since his schedule was bad...didn't have to work so i could volunteer...whatever, anything not to make lifetime decisions. my parents made them when i was young and then h made them...now it is my turn and i do not know what to do and how to do it. i appear to be strong on the outside but inside i am a frigthened little girl. so i keep on substitute teaching and trying to keep busy. i am sometimes think i am not realistic about my future...thinking h will have this awakening and start to work on the marriage. he is losing the kids...they will have relationships with him but nothing like they should...and he is losing me and our future and he is working too hard. seems he is running away from himself. who knows. i read JW's comments about her grandchild and i long to share those things with my h but i have to wonder if i ever will...life just isn't the way it was supposed to be and that hurts. but you all know what i mean. anyway, i am taking the advice and doing what i am told. detach and no more pursuit. ohhhh it is difficult. i don't want you all to be disappointed in me. i will write again after i get home.
GG: have a great trip.
JW: trust with finances is important and scary...but one thing i know is that after so many years of marriage, a marriage is like a business...sad way to look at it, but it is.
Wesse; keep that advice coming...day in and day out. I learn from all of you.
Someday i want to write a book. i love to write...
I would just like a glimmer of hope from him...bring dinner last week and prefacing it with, 'don't get the wrong idea, i am not coming home just because I brought dinner...' isn't the hope i mean...but something...so I know this is paying off. I am still doing this for 'us' and not simply for 'me.'...got to begin doing it for me.
