Our therapist feels we have built up walls to stop from hurting each other. I tend to agree with her. The problem is that we tend tend to put aside our own needs if we feel that it might hurt the other.
She has not yet offered a solution, although our next session should get us started at finding solutions.
2 deg (C) and sunny on the West Coast today, can't beat that
Yeah I like the wistful description too. Sort of a progression from the summer's madness.
The pain is still there but you sort of glide along with it.
Your therapist's description of the walls makes sense. At this stage it would seem natural to each put aside your own needs. I know you'll keep working at the solution.
Wow Chris, I just reread some posts here. Its hit me that we are stuck in similar ways not exact same. before counseling it was just me stuck after counseling it seems we both became stuck there. because my H has become aware of how he was hurting me with his pressure etc. And it does seem to still drive me away and hurt me when he talks of his needs. There just seems to be more then I can handle. well you know the story. anyhow I have been taking a complete break from my relationship or working on it in anyway.
since H has been home for almost 2 weeks with his knee problem. things have seemed more comfortable but thats because he is here keeping an eye on me and knows I am not doing anything wrong. its not perfect we still have disagreements but I noticed they dont create as much tension that lingers. It got me wondering if perhaps we have a chance by going back to MC. I seem to get to this point where I start to relax in away then bam I feel I get blind sided from irationalness. I guess its just some events with another relationship that I have watched from the outside where I can see their problems and where they can fix them with some comunication skills. they see it as unfixable and over but for me I can see so much so clearly having been in the same place with my H and being able to work through it through counseling. their problems are mild compared to ours but their biggest comunication problem is the one my H and I were able to fix in counseling so it got me wondering if maybe I should give MC another chance. I am not going to bring it up I am going to just let things be longer and continue where I am at. I just want to make sure I havent developed a sort of tunnel vision from my reading and studying at DR Irenes site. I am not ready to start a thread on this thought so I am crashing yours for one post on it.
Chris, My H and I both seem to have similar walls, but in reverse from you and your wife. I am afraid of showing too much emotion because I am afraid that it 1) won't be reciprocated 2) will drive him away. He has told me he is scared to move back home (though he is still planning on it by the end of Feb.) because he is afraid of offering false hopes, and that we'll both fall back into our old ways. This stale mate is frustrating!! I feel like there isn't much more progress I can make until he DOES move back home, but I guess we can continue the maintenance-- the being friends.
I don't know how else we can move forward until we take the next plunge of him moving back in. I reassure him of my commitment to change through words and deeds. But then he'll say that he is afraid that HE won't be able to committ to the change. Well, I don't see how I have a lot of control over that.
But this is your thread... sorry for dumping on it. I can also empathize with how in the past you have relished a day or two of "freedom" from the spouse, but now when they are gone it is painful. I hate the nights that H doesn't come over. It drives me insane sometimes. I have a scheduled 24 day Outward BOund trip this summer to learn high altitude mountaineering. I have had this planned for a couple of years... and now while I am still going to go (with H's approval), I am concerned for the first time in my life about getting home sick!! Or more closely hubby sick..... This is nuts!
Dr Irenes site? I went there and thought for abit. I thought if you start with the premise that either I or my W was an abuser and would always be an abuser then the site would give you the tools and the strength to move on. To stop the abuse.
If I asked myself the question what do I think the problem with my relationship is right now I would look backward and think about the neglect of my W. I would look backwards and see the pain of my W's leaving, I would look backward and see how we had each hurt one another in the past.... BUT this is not the problem!
The problem is that I now cannot express my needs for "fear" that I will get stepped on again. The problem is that my W was neglected soo long that she does not trust HERSELF enough to let me in.
Now I don't believe for a minute that I would ever neglect her in any way for the rest of our lives together. I believe on the surface she would agree. So the problem is not that I am a "neglector" the problem is that my W has been conditioned. She has packed her emotions up and put them in a safe place. She just can't get to them now and it frustrates her and at times she blames me for this.
So Sue, what about you, an MC might help I sure don't think it would hurt. Keep on doing what you are doing stay a little bit detached and examine all your possiblities.
that is a tough place to be. So often we short ourselves living because of fear to try to live. Listening to you reminds me of some similarities of how I feel inside. I am more then willing to try to fulfill his needs but have a very hard time speaking up for mine for fear of what I get for asking. We already know that creates more problems though.
She will have a breakthrough and "feel" again. its so hard to do it especially when you feel like you just dont know how. It seems so simple yet I know exactly what its like to stuff emotions and feelings away so long and keep them so locked up you dont know how to feel anymore when you want to. I was doing long before I met my H.
I guess I am afraid of wearing myself thin again. I get so worked up when I listen to all he says is the problem change to his specifications and there is something else. I do know what its like to be where your W is as far as not being able to get at the feelings and feel. I was there when at Betty Ford it was my final day of group therapy there when I had a kind of break through of emotions and I never "felt" so much. there was a lot of pain. I stayed "feeling" for quite some time but I recoiled back into that place of not feeling after months of my Hs verbal attacks that lasted hours daily. In marriage counseling so much came back and the flood gates were opend. For me it just seems like my "fears" keep coming true every time I take a chance. Seeing how your W is now could you imagine hypothetically her taking a chance and throwing her fear out and going for it ... to get the old you back? how many times do you think you could do that before it was over for sure for good.
I dont feel up to going another round with him right now. I am going to stay in this LR mode. he dosnt seem to happy with it, feels I dont care. but its better on me and I have to take care of me right now. I am still going to take a break on thinking about my relationship. I am getting places with my girls! they are responding very well. not fighting as much and getting a long better etc. Its just those times when I see my family be a "family" that get to me and I wish so much I could make it work. and theres the times where I seem him yelling at the girls and yelling at me and I know how destructive this is now.
however couples counseling might be good any how for comunications sake.
Hi Chris, I had a pretty good talk with H after work today (today was his first day back to work). He has been trying lately I noticed. even when he was hurting he still tried to help out with dishes and meals. One thing I noticed was I thank him for everything he does a few times for good measure to make sure he really knows and really feels apreciated. what I noticed is the next time we get in a tif about something he will start with the "poor me" I did all this and this and you didnt even apreciate it and didnt even say thank you or even notice... I will say yes I did and tell him word for word what I said and his acknowledgments. Any how today during our discussion on our changing perspectives, I brought that up and asked him why that is. He said he thinks maybe he dosnt feel as though I mean what I say. he pointed out a time recently when he did feel apreciated. I thought about it and said well how is that diferent then the times you dont think I mean it. He said he thinks its an action thing. Gave me the example of our stove. Now I HATE taking the burners apart and cleaning all that stuff on the stove all the pieces etc. I used to do it every evening but now I just wipe it down with out taking it apart. When he does dishes he takes the stove top apart and thoroughly cleans it. I always make a big deal out of it becuase I really really apreciate that. But he says if I dont go through the trouble to maintain it after he has gone through the trouble to clean it then he feels I didnt apreciate his work and what he did for me. I said oh I see. hmmmm well maybe that might be one of those perspectives you might need to change, because I DO apreciate it really. He said well maybe. and we left it at that. I am going to try and do better about that now that I know this though.
He said he has been doing a lot of thinking and has some realizations he is putting together but is not quite ready to talk to me about it because its not totally clear to him yet. But he says he is starting to see where he has contradictions within him that are creating him stress and tension. Contradictions between beliefs and feelings. He mentioned how I said somehting the other day that really nailed things. I said we learn so much and intellectuallize so much of how we want to be and how we should do things and try and change our behaviors but still we have moments where we slip and do our old behavior. He said thats so true. He said he knows when he feels stress or when he is sick or hurting its really hard to be what he wants to be but he tries. I said I know I am working really hard on my codependent behaviors that I need to change but I know my emotions get the best of me and I act on them sometimes. He said "you know there are a lot of people and I am one of them that dont like labels" I said I know. he said not only are you doing something bad but now you have this label of this bad thing you are. I said yeah I know, and that emotional abuser one sounds so diferent then what it is. it sounds like someone who is intentionally evil and trying to hurt someone. When in reality there is so much that shapes us and who we are and how we form the opinions we have. Its hard to see what we are doing wrong until we constantly crash into the same wall and we eventually have to realize hey, this may make sense to me but look what the out come is something must not be right here. thats whats so great about counseling you can learn a new way of thinking that makes things so much easier to understand where in the begining can sound so crazy then later sudenly be so clear. I said that abuser lable sounds so harsh I think its better stated "negative comunication behaviors" that make our lives dificult, and with changes in thinking life can greatly improve. he agreed. He seems to be really thinking alot about what he read at Dr Irenes site and the information I gave him.
I think in a round about way I finally spoke up for my needs kinda. I think what happend really got his attention. I guess I feel I never came straight out and really said all I thought. I think I was too vague maybe in the past. I am not sure. but now he has something very specific to look at and decide whether he needs to work on it or not. I think his choice there will be the answer to what lies ahead. I feel like for so long I kept telling him you need to work on you etc. but I dont think he really knew exactly what he needed to work on. His irational thinking makes sense to him so how can he know its something to be worked on, to him the problem is me. I think thats why MC helped us so much the first time because as we brought in our fights the counselor was able to point out to him where his thinking was wrong and he would really reflect on it and see it after a while. when we were in counseling the counselor did coment on how far my H came in such short amounts of time and how you could really see he was trying hard. At that time I wasnt in any shape yet to be there, I wasnt able to be open about just how bad the past was and just how much I was hurting over it.
I am going to continue to detach and keep my focus more on the girls and myself and let him continue to reflect and see where he ends up. I am not going to go for any temporary appearances of working on himself. I see where I need to continue working harder on not being a victim.
recently I had a disagreement with a family memeber. after the disagreement I reflected on it and notice where I didnt stand up for myself and not tolerate name calling and allowed myself to feel like I deserved this treatment and didnt take care of myself. I think my job for now is to really work much harder at strengthening that area for me.
okay thats my thoughts for the day, H is taking a nap the babysitter and the kids are playing supernintendo. I feel pretty together about now. think I am going to take the gang to costco and pick up dinner while we are out and surprise H when he wakes up from his nap.
