On Friday my H thew a giant "man tantrum" (the ladies at work coined this one) then called and left me a long, angry voice mail to tell me that he did. I came home to a kitchen where H had "cleared" the counter by throwing everything away - coffee pot, blender, dirty dishes, in response to having spilled something and having trouble cleaning it up because no one had emptied and refilled the dishwasher in the morning. Behind him he left coffee on the floor and clear counters. He also took the kid's laptop computer and the play station and put them away. Then he went to work. In trying to discuss in when he came home he defended his actions the following way:
No one is helping (not really true). He feels all alone in the world because I did not take a day off of work last week when I was in so much pain from the procedure and he had to pick up my slack. Major offenses: no one took the garbage out Thursday night, no one cleaned the coffee pot (and he hates coffee and even the smell of it)... He said that he knows he is overreacting and being unreasonable but he just doesn't know what to do. He said that he didn't feel like hurting himself but that he was so emotionally depleted that he felt like checking in to the psych hospital. He also said that basically he couldn't please me no matter what etc.... (This is his standard tactic - he shames me for having needs, desires). He felt that I was only interested in him physically, that I wasn't interested in "talking" etc... AND that I only wanted all of that on my terms. I was so shocked that I only spluttered. "You are just wrong." To which he said, "probably I am but that is what I feel." We didn't get far in that discussion and it got out of control with yelling, walking away, H screaming with angry tears, lots of tears on my part etc...several times.
OK - anger is a primary symptom of male depression. I pointed that out - he still blames stress, lack of sleep etc... I was an am so angry that I don't know what to do. On Saturday I bought another coffee pot and blender and replaced them in the kitchen without a word. Other people live in our home besides him and we use those. I could barely speak when we went to a professional baseball game as a family on Saturday and could say thank you but felt very hollow about Mother's Day on Sunday. On Monday I stayed home all day because the baby was sick - worked on the garden, made a nice dinner, sorted through the girls winter/summer clothes etc... H was pretty friendly last night - rubbed my back on the couch etc... I feel alone.
So...I am sad, disillusioned, depressed and the escape hatch is shut. What to do? I am not dumping H. I am not willing to be his scapegoat. I am not willing to plead to be loved. I am not willing to live my current pathetic existence where I wait for whatever scraps he thows my way and then do tricks until I get some more. You dog people know what I'm talking about.
We have agreed that there is no way to try another IUI cycle next month if this one didn't take. I don't care.
What are my alternatives? Well, I guess I can just find other things to do with my mind and my time. We can co-parent, take care of our home and we can have a lovely, warm friendship. I can mb to take care of myself (although I know from experience that this only makes me more horny) just like he does and have no sexual expectations at all. I can schedule myself for massages, work on my female friendships and exercise a lot more. I can become supermom to my kids. They are growing up so fast they feel like they are getting away as it is. To me that is a half existence. That is having the kind of life that lots of women like because it limits their pain, the less intimacy, the less desire, the less pain - lower the expectations and voila everything is fine again. As Schnarch says, "H has said, love me, live within my limitations." Maybe it is time I just say - OK.
Sister Mary Karen, who must go to confession due to the sin of resentment
Ok...your H has admitted to you that basically he feels out of control and that he doesn't know what to do. Would he be willing to go talk to a Psychiatrist?
You might try approaching him with the premise, that he needs to talk to someone where he's in a "safe" environment....where he can say absolutely anything he wants/needs to without feeling like there are going to be reprocussions from you for it.
It's very possible that if you can get him to agree to go...the Dr. will recognize the symptoms of depression in your H (if he is truly depressed or whatever) diagnose him fairly quickly and give him some appropriate treatment to help get his behavior under control.
Hi Karen Well, I would only encourage you to lower your expectations if that is also going to follow with lowering your resmentments. It doesn't sound like you really want to, or are able to, do that at this time. You and your H have LOTS of drama going on in that household. wow. You clearly are both very emotional people which can be good but also can clash. And now both of you are both depressed to boot. Recipe for big trouble. The problem I see with some M's and not having an "escape hatch" is that often instead of making the couple work harder to make the M thrive, it does the opposite. The couple knows neither person is going anywhere so they really retreat into their own worlds, never really work on their own issues, to make the M better. Too much effort maybe. So it's a double-edged sword. But ultimately, we know there is always an escape hatch, if not for you, than maybe your S. I'd try and figure out what is going on in HIS head for a while and stop making assumptions about what he is thinking. Just my 2 cents.
Ditto to everything GEL said, including ( and especially) the hugs. I know your H is a psychologist...has he been in treatment before? How would he react to this suggestion?
No I don't think he is willing to see anyone yet - he is too "other" focused. He feels the way he feels because of us, because of stress, because of "fill in the blank." This kind of behvior happens to H about 2x/year when his normal low, chronic depression spikes with a bunch of anxiety about something. He won't do this kind of thing again for months therefore, he just passes it off.
The kids didn't see the intial outburst although they did see the aftermath and some of the argument that followed. Strangely, he was more able to talk over some of it with DS14 than he was me.
He does feel overwhelmed and out of control. He said that he had a bad training session the day before due to his inability to get a grip on himself. So that night he sat and stewed and watched the garbage get higher and no one take it out, the dishes stack on the counter while the dishwasher ran and no one doing anything about it the next day..... It is basically a feedback loop. The thing is that he was already out of control, angry, frustrated etc...and he set the rest of us up to be at fault. He could have said - "hey guys, a little help around here?" He could have said, " Hey family, I'm feeling a little frustrated, could you all be extra helpful for a little while?" "He could even have said, Honey, I'm having some trouble could you just listen to me for a while?" Whatever. But no. He sat on the couch and watched for us to "screw up" by being a normal family, doing normal things that usually would not be an issue.
Well, what can I say. Do I want to have sex with this particular manifestation of H? Not really. Am I still horny? Absolutely. Guess that is my problem. What to do with H? Let him know that what he did was out of bounds. I already did that. Suggest he get help. Did that too.
He has had counseling over depression arising from grief issues a few times. He has also taken an anti-depressant in the short term for those issues. We have been to counseling together some. He knows that there is a HUGE family history so he has made provisions for involuntary committement should he ever become suicidal.
That is about it for treatment. He is aware that he suffers from depression. He isn't aware that these rages have something to do with it.
Karen... What do you mean by provisions for involuntary commitment? What a sword of Damocles to be hanging over your head. It reminds me of my father's worry that he would die of a heart attack at 59 like his father...spent that yr holding his breath.
My H has a living will that stipulates that his best friend and/or I can involuntarily committ him in the event that he becomes a danger to himself even if he doensn't want to go. Both his father and his brother committed suicide and H made this provision to protect the kids from becoming fatherless. Yes it is awful and it isn't appropriate to use in this case.
Karen1, you are my new hero. At the moment, you are the only “adult” in your family. That must be a really overwhelming and lonely feeling. I really admire your strength and ability to hold it together under such conditions.
My only thought is that it really sounds like your H it out of control here. Messing with a person’s caffeine fix is grounds to be drawn and quartered. Seriously though, I would think it reasonable to demand that he seek mental help. Acting out physically like that is screaming for attention. It sounds to me he is just weak and wants you to force the issue.
Quote: coffee pot and blender and replaced them in the kitchen without a word
I understand and respect why you went this way. Though, it is probably important to enforce consequences too though. If you let him get away with acting out like that, then he might just keep it up.
Quote: Maybe it is time I just say - OK.
I am very sad to hear that you feel so defeated. You sound like such a loving W and a great mother, I sincerely hope that your H grows up and recognizes what he has before him soon. You deserve better than what he is offering right now.
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. -- Socrates
I feel so bad for you. Our H's must be on the same psychic wave length. I can so empathize with your feelings. Your normal everyday sort of relationship needs become as nothing in the face of the black hole of your H's depressive tendencies. This may sound crazy but I'm sure you can understand this thought. After my H's tantrum, I was actually having the thought that I ought to withhold sex from HIM just to show him how serious I am about the fact that he needs to get counseling and/or treatment for his depression/anxiety and the related problems he has with work and sexuality. Though I would probably get quicker results by withholding my cooking (LOL but in a sad way.)
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Seriously though, I would think it reasonable to demand that he seek mental help. Acting out physically like that is screaming for attention. It sounds to me he is just weak and wants you to force the issue.