Have you guys been to counseling? Seems to me 2 years is quite a bit of time. Is he going to be resentfull the rest of your married life?
I was in IC for a year and a half and stopped when H and I started MC. We have only been to MC a handful of times because of H's work schedule.
You don't need anybody to hold on your hand any more. Sometimes I think you seek permission to do what H wants instead of doing the right thing.
I know, I know. It's just that when I made that clarification, I could just feel everyone saying "OHHHH, well, I didn't know THAT...in that case....". I am making progress at listening to *me*, but I still seem to need that reality check just to make sure that I am being reasonable. I will get past that. I will.
Heather, do you make OM a part of your life in any way? Do you go to any of his gigs? Do you call him on the phone? Do you email him? Do you talk to him? Do you see him? Do you even *want* to do any of those things?
NO! I haven't seen, heard from or of him since the day I told him never to call me again.
Because if not, H the only one keeping OM in your life. Why does he want OM to remain in your life two years later? Why is OM the last man who kissed you? That's not what *you* want; it's what H wants.
You're right. It's because H can't let it go. I haven't suffered enough yet, H is still getting his revenge, he's still wallowing in his pain. He's still waiting for me to 'prove' to him that I am committed, that I am sorry.
Did he tell the kids you were picking him up before his conversation with you about the vehicles? If so, he's point blank manipulating you with the children.
Yes, he did. But I didn't feel like he was manipulating, he was just assuming that this time would be like every other time and I would switch vehicles and pick him up. Like always.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: You're right. It's because H can't let it go. I haven't suffered enough yet, H is still getting his revenge, he's still wallowing in his pain. He's still waiting for me to 'prove' to him that I am committed, that I am sorry.
Has he ever said what it will take to "prove" you are committed to him, that you are sorry? Did he catch you in the A? or was this something that he came onto later after it was over? I understand his feeling to make you suffer, to make you hurt. In his mind you made him hurt so he now feels he needs to make you hurt. Just seems to me 2 years and he is still not even getting over any resentment. Really sounds like you guys need to get into MC very very soon. If he is soooooooooooo set on never rideing in your truck ever again, you should trade it in and get a new one. Its just very immature of him to put you in this position over a truck. I know I know, he is making you suffer. Don't you think its time you guys discussed this whole thing and came up with some solutions?
Did he tell the kids you were picking him up before his conversation with you about the vehicles? If so, he's point blank manipulating you with the children.
Yes, he did. But I didn't feel like he was manipulating, he was just assuming that this time would be like every other time and I would switch vehicles and pick him up. Like always.
Whoops, I said that backwards. I should have said: "Did he tell the kids you were picking him up *after* his conversation with you about the vehicles? If so, he's point blank manipulating you with the children."
So I'm glad he hasn't done that. And you're fine to tell the kids, "Well, it didn't work out to go pick up Daddy," and leave it at that.
We've had this discussion before, but as much as I can relate to H and as much as I've done many of the stupid things he's doing, the truck thing and the kissing thing never fail to astound me. He's made the truck yours and OMs instead of yours and his. H doesn't take back what OM "took"; he gives it away. He lets OM control him to an amazing extent.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Just wanted to say I think the points you are making are fantastic Burgbud. Heather, I think you should say those things directly to him. Males are instictively competitive with other males. If you show him how much he is still giving up to OM, while you have been trying to give it back to him, he may finally take the initiative and take those things back for himself. I can say from a man's perspective, if I were in his shoes, I'd be riding around in your truck all the time as an act of defiance and possessiveness against OM. I'd probably even insist that I drive the vehicle. I know, I can be silly sometimes. Maybe it is wrong-headed to think that way, but that is what I would do.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I just gotta tell you....I am thinking about some things that could really turn this R upside down....I have this incredible urge to come on to H with the clear intent to have sex. I want to kiss him just like I used to.....if he tries to protest, tell him "sshhh, we did it your way for two years. Now we're going to try mine". Afterward I'll just stay in my bed. There, wasn't that easy? Isn't making up fun?
Why can't it be that simple? Can it be?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
I say try it! What’s he gonna do? Kick you out of bed and stop talking to you?
That was sarcasm, right? This gets into my integrity discussion on the other thread. I don't think I would even be thinking about a SL with man who treated me in such a horrible fashion. I've been trying to avoid saying too much to this whole thread because it makes my blood boil. I'm just at a loss for advice here. Just wanted to say, why not hold on to a smidge of integrity if you are willing to stay in this M and avoid the sex issue for now.
I have to agree with you here. I get that Heatherg had the A, but after 2 years there should be some kind of progress in making the M compatable for everyone.
Heather, do you feel so guilty that you are allowing him to continue to treat you this way? I can just see you 10 yrs down the road still feeling guilty and him still treating you like he does now. If he is not willing to work with you on the M, why is he still around? To make you suffer? That could just go on forever.
I have to say that I agree that in two years the flogging should stop. Your R should be farther along than this. When I say "should" I mean it in the sense of should if it is ever going to work. Heather - if you did do what you just suggested and he responds badly wouldn't that mean it is time to go?
Yeah, that was sarcasm. I can see your point too. I guess I am in the camp that this M needs to get moving or it will end in D. As long as he is in the red zone, has all that anger and borders on violence, there is little anyone can do. What Heather really needs to do is give a good yank on his choker leash to snap him out of it.
I think he is steeped in self pity. He can only see his pain. He really wants Heather to rescue him but he blames her for putting him in the position of needing to be rescued in the first place and he because he is mad at her, he won’t let her rescue him. Talk about a Catch 22! He considers himself an innocent bystander, so I think that is why he feels like she is calling the shots.
Sooooo, if Heather jumps his bones, does it really compromise her integrity? She might think so, or she might see herself as the bigger person, willing to lay aside her ego, make herself vulnerable and take a chance to repair he marriage. Plus I’m not sure he would see it as a violation of her integrity anyway. His standards seem pretty low.
