]It makes the M a failure. And I try to think of ways to make the M not a failure, but I can't change it.
Stop trying to own what you cannot. This is no win.
It affects my self-esteem because there are certain things that I define success by. If I change the majority of those benchmarks, then all of a sudden my definition of success *FEELS* more like failure.
I agree with this in principal, but your goal is way too high in this case and the lack of progress is depressing you. If you could save the marriage, have the intimacy and the sex you want but the compromise would be that you couldn’t sleep together, would you take it? If so, then is sleeping together the real objective or is it the relationship?
But if one has to practice self soothing every single day, in major ways, and doesn't feel like their SO shares their concerns in life or values them in any important way, then differentiation becomes a way of life and can easily become just another wall where you say to yourself "Go ahead, act like that. You can't affect me." Well great. You've taken away your partner's power to affect you, bu are you happier???
The simple answer to this is an EMPHATIC YES!!! Once you learn to self sooth and your partner does too, then need to do so lessens. Just like karate. You are learning to defend yourself, and certain kicks are powerful enough to send someone to the hospital. But do you go around kicking people to feel powerful and boost your confidence? Of course not. Confidence and security come from the knowledge that you CAN exert power if you need to. Another person can be in your face, pushing for a fight, but knowing you can take him out anytime gives you a sense of calmness. It is like you can detach and see that person as a puppet on a string, flailing about, but it doesn’t bother you or scare you. But does that mean you can’t feel even MORE connected to them than if you were emotionally wrapped up in their “dance?” You are still confusing enmeshment with love. Keep reading Schnarch.
I don’t mean that you should go around advertising your sleeping in separate beds, but I wouldn’t make efforts to cover it up either.
I still find it extremely demeaning. And that is because my choices have been taken away from me more than anything. ….. It's about him disrespecting me and refusing to allow me to have any choices. …..H has ignored me, accused me, etc-what does that indicate to you? It indicates to me that it is a punishment, a sentence. Can you not see that?
This is good stuff Heather. But I don’t think you see what you are saying. To me this talks of a need to be respected as a person, to be recognized, acknowledged….. TO FEEL INCLUDED. Your past seems to explain this, especially if you were betrayed by your own friends. But ultimately your self respect has to come from you, not him. You know this right? So the “disrespect” he shows you is pushing your “lack of respect for yourself hot button.” See?
I'm not saying I've even begun to scratch the surface of learning it, but I will not fool myself into thinking that I can solve all of my problems if I could just take responsibility for how I feel.
True to an extent. Because you care for him, he will always impact how you feel. That is human nature. But even though you will always feel hurt if he is mean to you, you do not have to internalize it.
And what would that accomplish Cobra? How does that stand up for ME?
Yes.
You say I do need to stand up to him. But you also say I should have just slept in my separate bed. So how do I stand up to him Cobra? How is going home and sleeping in the guest room, just like always, standing up for MY feelings?
Don’t get me wrong when I say stand up to him. I do not mean for you to force any kind of physical confrontation that could lead to violence. But there is plenty you can do short of that. He may have physical power over you and he might be able to physically force you to do or not do something. But you don’t have to like it and you don’t have to keep putting up with it. The first thing to do is to tell him how you feel. If he FORCES you to sleep else where, keeping telling him that you does so because he is stronger and can bully you around. Tell him to his face (IF you think it is safe to do so) that you have to accept his power but YOU DON’T HAVE TO LIKE IT AND YOU DON’T LIKE IT.
What H was saying is "If you do this, the M is over". That is a threat. And certainly, if I would have said that to him, you'd have called me out on it. Oh, and by the way, I did it. So, does that mean the M is over now? Should I ask him? Where is his follow through, is he seeing a lawyer? Let me tell you the answer~NO. Because it was a threat, an attempt to control my actions. Nothing more.
Yes, he made a hollow threat and so did you. Neither of you gained anything from it. I would call him out on this too if he were here.
It felt like vulnerability to me. You have to realize that to even think for a second that H is going to give a crap about what I have to say, THAT is vulnerability.
This doesn’t make sense. How do his thoughts make you vulnerable? Also, I understand it may have felt vulnerable to you, and compared to how you have been in the past, it felt vulnerable. But get something straight – Both you and your H are dysfunctional. You know that. You both need to change to healthier people. You know that too. That means changing into someone that you cannot fathom is a scary process. But that is what this board is for, the books, the counselor. You have to put a certain amount of faith in the advice you receive because there is no other way for you to know where you are going.
The same way you don't walk up to a stranger and start spilling your guts, when you're trying to build trust and intimacy you can't expect someone to just lay it all out there, particularly if you have walked away, laughed and demeaned them in the past. Human beings are smart, right? We don't put our whole hand on the burner if we think it might be hot....we stick our finger out. And if we get burned, it reinforces the idea that we should quit putting our finger out. I am still willing to put my finger out, but I am *NOT* willing to just dive right in. And look at H's reaction to me. He turned around, walked away and shut his/our bedroom door. What does that say to me? That I should bare more of myself next time???
The short answer is yes. Wouldn’t you just love to hear him lay it all out on the line, to admit to his fears and confess his love for you, how much you mean to him? If her were posting here, I’d say the same to him. But he is not so I can only advise you. You must bare yourself, look past the rejections (which are nothing more than signs of immaturity and anger) and hold to the course. Keep every thing in the open. Bet honest in what you really want, and honest in how you feel when he hurts you. It is OK to feel the hurt, just don’t let it control you. Understand that you are hurting because he is so damaged he CANNOT help you.
If he has such deep meaning and reasons for the things he does, why do I need to turn anything around on him? You seriously confuse me. You defend him all the way through this post, explaining his position, and then all of a sudden tell me I've been mothering him and need to turn things around on him.
What I mean here is that there is a time to show your vulnerabilities, your soft side, to turn the other cheek. Then there is the time to stand up, say I’ve given you everything you want, now be a man and take your own responsibility. This is the rattle the cage phase. This stage is meant to pressure the other person to move out of their comfort zone.
So far people have advised you to comfort him, show him that you can offer the love and security he really wants. If he does not take it, then his fears are so great he cannot even reach out his hand. Rattling the cage is meant to force him to take that step. He will have to confront a choice – take the love and all the changes he claims he wants from you or go his own way. The decision is not that difficult if the two choices are CLEAR.
So far, I am not sure you have done your part to make these choices clear. For him to choose you now means accepting your anger, your need for revenge, your walls and defenses. It is too scary for him to take all this on the promise that you will improve more in the future. So he prefers to stay in his cave. Make the choices you offer him so compelling the any other man would jump at the chance. That is why you need to focus on you – to make yourself the best prize possible. Do you understand?
How do you make a boundary on such horrible disrespect, for instance, as someone walking away from you when you are trying to talk to them?
This may seem disrespectful, but it is also his choice. He doesn’t have to agree to speak with you. Remember, he always has two or more choices. Because he does not choose the way you want means either 1) he is irrational (in which case all is lost and you need to check him into the looney farm), 2) he does not/can not understand the choices you offer, or 3) the choices offered are not enticing.
Forgive my negativity. I am at a place in this R where I feel helpless and I'm not sure I even care at this point.
If you truly didn’t care you wouldn’t feel negative or helpless.
