Peter thanks for stopping by and your good wishes. I drop by Cheers sometimes just to see how you are doing. Someday you are going to make some woman very happy and she will be very lucky to have a man like you whether it be GW or someone else. You are a terrific guy and I hope you know that.
Ronmom I hope you are doing well and hanging in there. This DBing does take time and your ability to back off from pushing your H and have patience will play a big role. It is a hard skill to learn but it is what seems to work.
Things are going well between H and me although I think he would say things are real good but on my side things are OK but not what I want.
I have found H doesn't like me to make any reference to his affair or what he has done. To him it is just over and lets move on from there which means just forget about it and get over it. I still haven't learned how to get him to be more affectionate at times besides bedtime. I got playful while he was watching TV yesterday and he said "that I was trying to hard and thinking about US to much". He doesn't understand that what I needed from him was some affection. Its a womans greatest need right but he just doesn't get it. So I left him alone and watched TV and got quiet. Then he gets upset because he interprets my quiet as me being upset with him and asked whats wrong. I said nothing is wrong. How come he always wants me to open up and answer his questions regarding my feelings but he doesn't open up much. I think this is probably a man thing. He is saying I Love You sometimes and once said he was sorry for everything that happened. Once he even said he never should have done what he did. So at least that is progress.
We have another therapy appointment in a couple of weeks and I am thinking hard about what issues I want to bring up. It will probably be our last session for at least a while. I think this communication thing is important and I want to make it better. I also can't help but wonder if I can truly trust him. I still feel like he could backslide. One thing that really bothers me is that obviously he lied to me for a long, long time. He is now good at lying. How am I going to know for sure if he lying to me or not. I am sure these issues are things I am going to have to work through and time will help.
My PMA is still good and honestly things are going well its just that he has amnesia and mind won't stop thinking.
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 12-27-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 12-27-1999).]
JW: seems like my H really wants out and has told his cousin it is time for me to file. This is not what I want and I will not do it. Backing off and DBing is hard. Am trying to find a SBT therapist. Think I have a lead for one 90 miles away and I would drive it, believe me. Actually, someone on the board is helping me find the person. I am away and will be home tomorrow but only over night and then it is off again. Can't stand being home. Knowing H might have OW although he swears no...but I think to men an OW must be sex and to women it can be emotional. I am trying to find even a glimmer of hope....but even that is difficult. I guess if he files that would mean absolutely no hope. I think it is time we confront eachother and discuss 'what went wrong'although i know i may never find out. he never wants to discuss the relationship and either hangs up or walks out or says, i will not discuss this. i want to discuss it with a therapist. i also told him (and i took it from the board) that i will not give up until we legitimately try and i can see all solutions fail....but even that is not going to help. H is adamant....
Hope you had a great holiday. you are one lucky person...actually, it is your H who is the lucky one.
I look forward to your postings, advice etc. i only wish i could be the one whose marriage is working.
Yeah, JW. The lying was the hardest part to get over. I still wonder if the lying is still going on. Trust restoration does not come easy. I worry about it a lot. I try to be hopeful, but I still have a lot of trust issues. I hope I can get over them one day, but I've been lied to so many times and for so many years. I think I told you I found out about another affair just prior to the wedding that I didn't know about until the ho decided to tell me last August. That makes 3 altogether. One since the wedding (the ho) and 2 during our engagement.
I have never gotten an apology or a thank you for not giving up on him. It's hard. You are lucky to have gotten an apology. I hear most of them just want to act like it never happened, and want us to get over it. Hmmm. Not sure if that is possible, but I'm still trying to act as if... GG
Happy New Years to all of my DBing friends. Hope you all have a happy and safe New Years celebration. We will be staying home, babysitting our new grandson, and watching the rest of the world celebrate the event on TV.
Ronmom it is not time to talk to your H about "what went wrong". Let him work it out with a therapist. He doesn't know what went wrong yet. Also even if he files that does not mean their is no hope. Lots of people file and never complete the process but in a strange way the act of filing may allow him to relax a little improving his thought process. Many of our H's at this stage (at least mine for sure) seemed to be almost scared or panicked that something may go wrong and they wanted out fast. What worked with my H is that I told him after 30 years of marriage I did not want to even discuss divorce details until after we had been seperated for one year. I didn't think that was too much to ask and he agreed to go along with that. This let him know that I had accepted his plan for leaving and would work with him making the split as easy as possible on everyone. He continued seeing the therapist every two weeks while we planned on his moving out in January. I didn't bring up the subject of the relationship and kept DBing my buns off. It took a couple of months to see even the baby steps of improvement. H's don't want to give us any reason to hope so they hold back until they are sure they want to stay married. Also keep in mind a stat I heard that 18% of weddings are between people who were divorced and are getting remarried. So never give up until you are ready to give up.
GG I've been thinking about you and the similarities in our situations. I hope the year 2000 is a good one for both of our marriages. Things are goings well enough here. H is back to holding my hand once in a while and when I stare off into space he pats my hand or something. I tell myself this is one of the 5 languages of love right. His way of saying I Love You. He still is not trying to do the little things that we women like even after I let him know I want him to do these things. So this morning if the florist is open I think I will go buy myself some flowers. This will get a response out of him. Maybe at least it will open up the subject for us to talk about what we want from each other. I am determined that if I can change he can too and I will keep trying to make this marriage the kind that will make us both happy.
Sorry for getting on the soapbox there but darn it I have worked hard and I want something back for all that work. I want my husband to show me he loves me in many different ways. I know that may sound selfish to those of you who so far have not gotten your spouses to work on your marriages. But do you really want the same person back or do you want them back better than before.
Its like if I can put little "I Love You" notes in his lunch bags and other little things he can learn to do these things for me too. I have learned patience and persistance from you folks and these tools will help me improve my relationship. How's that for PMA. I love you all, talk to you later.
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 12-31-1999).]
Johnswife: You and GG make it sound so easy. I am so scared since H is so set on ending this marriage. I will not file. So many people tell me too...especially my children. But I can't....for whatever reason.
Maybe if H brings up relationship I will say that I will not talk about D for one year. My H will NOT go to therapy. I think I found SBT person 90 miles from here...it is worth the ride for me...but I am sure H will not go. He went once to talk to my therapist since he was worried about me. He went once with me to her husband (that was when he said on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being not in the marriage he was a 0) and then he went back to the male therapist once...and as far as I know he will not return since he does not want to work on the marriage...he just wants out. I must be delusional, romantic or foolish since I can not accept what he says. His cousin, who is my good friend and has become this go between (which I have decided is not good...H has to talk to me if he wants to talk...allthough cousin is on my side if there are sides...she thinks we should work on it...but accepts his adamant decision to end it all)says he is adamant about never coming home. I used a statment you wrote me before when I talked to H and he said something about moving ahead in our lives: that until we legitimately work on this, I am not giving up. H says he has tried..but in his own way to be sure...and he has not included me in the trying. His secretary who is friends with OW (H swears it is a friendship and not sexual...but that is an affair in my heart) is pushing this...she even found name of lawyer for H (cousin told me)..secretary would kiss H's ass (pardon me) if he asked....he is not getting any pro-marriage support except from cousin...
I just feel like I am in this alone...I know I am not since I have all of you...but like you have said, each situation is so different. And my H is so stubborn and adamant and when he says that he was out of the house for a year five years ago so this is not new...but yet he moved us here on the promise he would work on the marriage and he wanted it to work and that if things got bad he would make sure we did something to save it. He broke this sacred promise...yet he says I broke mine too since I stopped taking care of myself emotionally...true...but he never pointed it out until it was too late and OW had captured him in one way or another.
Everyone writes I should be his friend...how when I don't see him and the conversations are tense...and he says uncomfortable...and this is the man I love...help me...dear person...the more advice I get the better I do.
Have a wonderful new year...may you be blessed with peace, joy and love
JW: I know you are busy DBing all the time and don't visit this board much. But GG suggested I write to you (and if you want to exchange regular e-mail addresses that would be fine...I know we can do that through the DB main web site) since I need a push. I decided I am not filing...it will be up to him...I also decided to detach...but it is hard. H makes it clear to his cousin (my friend) and the children, he is not coming back. Yet today, after I returned from bringing #4 to meet his ride to return to college, H was here doing his wash and reading the paper. He could do his laundry in the basement where he lives but he comes here. I don't care...it is his house...he pays the bills...but why does he do this. He says he wants to be friends but he will not do things with me. He had a tough few weeks at work, the boys (the two youngest home from college) did not want to see him. I stayed away the entire holiday week since I knew I would not go out with him on new years and that hurt...and he was upset that #4 would not see him before he left. I keep hanging in there hoping this is MLC and H will see the light. But he says what has driven him away is our bickering, my nagging and being on the kids to do things, plus my desire to get my own way about foolish things (ie tv in bedroom at an angle and not at the foot of his bed.) He is right and I have told him that..but his complaints are all able to find solutions in my book. He says (to his cousin since he uses her as a go between...he doesn't say things to me...) he has been struggling for a long time...well then why did he move us here four years ago this week on a promise to work on this marriage forever. He refuses to go to therapy...but if I find an SBT (called one and she is to call me back or I will try again tomorrow) person maybe that will help. He read "Grow Up" and thought it was anti-divorce and biased in that area...sure it was...he said we would talk about the book but he has not brought it up and I am afraid to.
My plea to you is HOW did you do this. What tactics...I read and reread DB all the time and am trying but with no sign of any success. I feel so alone since both boys left...and abandoned...like in my childhood when my parents would be busy working (they worked with children and my sister and I alwasy felt they spent more time with all these other kids and not us...too involved to get into...but I have forgiven them...hey I am old enough at 54)...and empty...
I know I am going around in circles...but GG said you would be a good source of encouragement. I read and reread this thread to remind myself it is possible but is four months and although he is nice to me he still says he is not coming back and I am in denial about it...that I don't hear what he says because I don't want to. True I guess. I feel foolish crying and feeling so sad...and alone. No real friends here...many people I thought were friends think this is catching and I have chosen to distance myself from people. If they have not 'been there and done that' they really don not understand. It would be great to find someone close who has DB successfully....I should check on the web site...that might help.
Hi Ronnie hope you are hanging onto your PMA. It is sooo important.
I also made the decision that I would not file for a divorce. When the subject came up I told H that after 30 years or marriage I wanted to take it slow and think everything through. I told him that after we were separated for one year I would talk about a divorce with him but not until then. I reminded him that this whole idea was new to me even if he had been thinking about it for a couple of years. I explained that I needed time to catch up to where he was and he said he understood. Because I wasn't fighting him and by telling him all the time we could work it out he felt comfortable with my response I guess. I do have some thoughts for you.
It is wonderful that your H comes over to do his laundry. Whatever the reason is you want him to feel comfortable being at home. So what you have to do is be the happy PMA person you are trying to be when he is there. Even if you have to fake it thats OK. DO NOT start any talk about working it out or wanting to reconcile. Be happy and go about doing something around the house. I worked my buns off cleaning places that needed attention that I had put off doing. Show him that accomplishing these things makes you feel good. If he brings up the subject of your relationship, just listen. Ignore any of that "nothing is going to make a difference" crap he says. If he brings up the subject and acts as though he wants to get on with the divorce tell him you are reading and trying to learn all you can right now and need some time to figure some things out. Tell him that you love him and that his happiness is what is important to you right now and that you will do everything you can to make this as easy on both of you and your children as possible but that means taking your time and figuring things out as you go and then drop it. Let him read the paper or whatever. Ask him if he would like something to eat or drink and fix it for him if he wants it. Serve it to him and then leave him alone and go do something around the house. Work on a project you have put off for awhile. I cleaned a lot of places I had put off for a long time. My H noticed. Just be his friend and don't even bring up fixing the relationship and don't sit there with him. I did that for a couple of weeks and H felt smothered. H was right I was smothering him and it was not helping.
What you want to do is make it real comfortable for him to come home for any reason. Let him see that when he comes by to do his laundry or anything else that he will find you happily working on something and DO NOT put any pressure on him by trying to fix the realationship.
Another important thing I learned was that our H's are going to want to be with whoever it is that makes them feel good about themselves. When you have the opportunity compliment your H about something that he is good at that you admire. You must be sincere about the compliment because if you are not being honest and sincere he will know it and will interpret it as you trying to manipulate him and it will push him away. But think about it everyone wants to feel good about themselves.
One of the reasons I have not been here much is because I feel bad complaining about anything when I know how much pain you and others are still enduring. I will be working on this marriage for a long time because one thing I learned in all my reading is that I derserve a better husband than the one I have had too. If I can work this hard to try to be the kind of wife that meets all of his needs then I feel he can learn to meet my needs also. My H has never been one to talk much about emotional things or do the little romantic things all of us women love. I am going to try to teach him these things. He won't read the books so it makes it a little harder. The good thing is he is willing to stay in therapy so we have our second joint session tomorrow. I want to work on communication issues and meeting each others needs so we will see what happens.
I know this is long but I don't mind reading long posts and I don't think you do either. I will be trying to think of other things to tell you that might help. I will come back here tomorrow night and see if I can help. KEEP WORKING ON THE PMA
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 01-10-2000).]
Hi Folks We had our second joint therapy session this evening. It went very well. I was able to get some of my frustration out in the open and H was able to admit that he wishes he had never gotted into the ema at all. Said he wished it had never happened. Our therapist was able to help us appreciate how far we have come and that she believes we have made tremendous progress. She got us to focus on the positives and pointed us in the right direction which for now is to spend more time together, just the two of us. So H is making plans for this weekend.
H says we will go for a drive in the foothills and listen to the "Keeping Love Alive" tapes and talk about them. I am sooo looking forward to this. In the old days I used to beg H to take a day off work and spend it with me and he would not do it. I just know it is going to be a wonderful weekend.
I feel emotionaly drained right now but I also feel good. We are going to make it.
thanks for your advice. I printed it out with others you have posted. I think I did some good DBing last night. Even GG agreed. We had some problems with #3 today and I had to call H...he said we would talk later. I told him I was going to the Y. He came there too after I did. We chatted for a moment. He said he would call #3 from our house. I said pick up dinner. He said he would call when he was done. He never called but showed up with KFC (I hate KFC but smiled as I ate it). As we sat down, H said, 'don't get any wrong ideas that I stopped by tonight with dinner because I am coming home.' I wish I had read you post before We did talk about the relationship as he brought it up...bottom line, I promised not to write him any more letters (they get repetitive...) and he said he would think about solutions and moving into the guest room (he won't...but it sounded nice) since he wants to move to a one bedroom (he is cramped in efficiency) but financially it is a strain (two weddings, two in college) and he said he would think. Who knows if he meant it or was placating me. Anyway...I will heed your advice. He left after one hour. Called later to ask if I had gooten in touch with #3. I said yes and so he said he was calling him. He called me back when he was done. We chatted. I told him he handled it great. He said he would call me in a.m. and probably would see me tomorrow. I am dying here...we have a long weekend ahead and I could visit my folks but would rather see him if he wants. I know IT HAS TO COME FROM HIM as he says...but he is so set in his ideas. I guess I am very scared...and I told him I miss him...(especially the sex part) and this is the time to build a relationship and not walk out on it. He had said he hated the bickering, the nagging and yelling at the kids. I agreed...saying it isn't like that. That if he spent more time here he would see. I am not sure about OW...I think it is an emotional thing...he doesn't look horny...wives can tell about these things...so maybe it is more...if only he would open the door of hop a crack instead of making me feel like it is padlocked...I guess if it was, he wouldn't stop by at all even with the comment, 'don't get any ideas.'
My kids want him out of my life...last time they were supportive of the US...now it is just of me....#3 says he doesn't want his dad around me....#1 isn't inviting him to her wedding...#4 does feel comfortable with him...#2 is mad. And this old mom wants to try, try, try.
Keep that advice coming.
ronnie
ps: what does it mean at the end of a posting that the message has been edited.
Ronnie what the edited means is that the author has gone back in and corrected spelling or perhaps added something to their original post. What you do if you want to edit your reply is click on the pencil at the top of your post and it will open it up again for you to edit.
