This weekend wasn’t a total wash out (although we are having some nice flooding here in the northeast!). Just a bummer. I sense she is in her “well” and I must continually remind myself that I cannot get her out. She can of course ASK for help and I will listen and be there, but she needs to get herself out of it.
What I sense going on is this continual “discounting” of me as a human being and I guess that what stings the most. Arrgggghhh, I’m being a whiny wuss right now. Glad I have a forum to do so! But I did get sucked back in – I know it. Looking back how obvious was it that when the OM treated her badly, she would flow right back. Now that he is perhaps pursuing...we're ebbing.
So, I’m a bit all over the place if you cannot tell. Part of piecing I suspect is that it will 100 fold test your patience beyond what trying to get to piecing will do. That is what I am seeing now. But, I guess what I am running through now is this. As a part of DB/DR and even DYD, I changed me, for me. That meant actually being happy with my life, living it for me. My 180’s involved being MORE attentive to my WAW and children – and really being more in service to them. At the same time, it also meant for me to be a little “less” erratic – at least with my feelings, particularly when I was down. Instead embracing and living life for EVERY day that we get on this Earth and loving every minute of it.
THAT is where I am at now. I’m living life for ME and living those things that I feel are important to me, and I suspected that they aligned with what WAW was looking for. I’m happy. I’m happy doing things for my kids and my WAW and feel it is part of who I am. I’m happy to continue to find outlets in working out and as the summer rolls along and my gut is all healed, I’ll be back on the mountain bike, road bike, and motorcycle. I want to buy another bike in fact (a cruiser). But, right now I feel like there is this boat anchor in my WAW that is pulling me down or not letting me sail my (our) course.
All in all, there is still more good here than bad perhaps. She and I just aren’t communicating I think on the right level. Much of what we talk about is very superficial. Trust me, I’m not sure I want night after night of deep R talk, etc. But I do know we aren’t moving past the hurt (on both our parts) in the right cadence. Or, maybe it’s the pace. Or, maybe it’s the occasional call from the OM. Who knows.
Post script – I did not give her a poem I had written for Mother's Day last night. I just felt it wouldn’t do any good. It wasn’t written as needy or anything, I just suspect if she has been feeling distant, I don’t want her having the conflict of reading and having feelings she could not reciprocate. Second, she called me this AM and we had a good convo. She was just venting about yesterday/last night at work. Funny thing is as I was packing up the apartment a bit last week I was looking at some of the cell phone bills. Striking that all the calls to the OM would last about a minute, maybe 2 or 3. The calls to me would last anywhere from 3 to 20 depending on the time, availability, etc.
We’ll see how she is tonight. I want to time the poem such that she is more on a wave cresting, than crashing as has been lately. We really need to get a break with this weather as that is bringing everybody down I'm sure.
Finally, a funny story. You may have read way back in my sitch that I have been here before. About 4 months after we were married, she had an affair. I moved out then too. The affair lasted about eight weeks when she broke it off. What is interesting is the timing of the year. The affair happened between January and March. In April of that year, I moved back. April and May were brutal – she was acting then as she is now. Things got suddenly better in June and we were reconciled by the middle of June and entered into one of the best times of our M/R. I guess I’m hopeful that time will, once again, repeat and by next month we'll be well on the way to a full blown reconciliation. However, I’m confident of two things. I am much more prepared and respect myself more than I ever have which will secondly keep it from happening again.
I return to DR and the chapter on writing out my wants. I'm working on that right now and plan to use some of this stuff in this post above, plus what are my want's from a relationship. Should be a great session!
Thanks for listening.
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Sven, thank you so much for posting, you made my day. Really, I am trying to get to the same place you are....regardless of the way M works out, it's gonna be great for me.
Thanks for the good vibes today. It's a beautiful day, live well, my friend!
Hi Sven - This is not easy at all, is it? There are so many ways to look at the facts in front of you, though.
What I sense going on is this continual “discounting” of me as a human being and I guess that what stings the most.
NG did this for about a year AFTER he ended all contact with ow. Then one day he discoverd something she had done which was underhand, went for a run, and came back and really looked me in the eye and said he did not know how he could have done something so horrible to ME. Until that moment, it was impossible for him to see me an a person. As someone worthy of consideration. He went through the motions, but they lacked conviction. It seems to be yet another rite of passage they need to go through. Sounds like your W is there, but not all there yet. The more you continue to be the honorable person, loving father, the more likely the affair will eventually emerge as what it is, something not worthy.
I did not give her a poem I had written for Mother's Day last night. I just felt it wouldn’t do any good.
Good move. Let her come to you. Btw, mystery works even in Piecing Even now, every time I feel things between NG and I going a bit umm predictable, I pull a mystery, and it wakes him up.
Slowly, your comments are both inspiring and frustrating as you can imagine. Honestly, I hope I have the strenght to last the year. I have found such inner strenght and confidence in my self that I won't compromise. Sometimes I feel that is what I am doing. We'll stay the course for now. Even when she asked me to move home, I got the sense that the conviction was not there. WAW will readily admit however that this is all her at same time. That from here the failure of the M is on her, not me. Hence perhaps the cold shoulder and the sense of pressure. Our mutual friend was noticing the other day that when WAW becomes stressed, she seems to put her focus everywhere it does NOT belong - where if she directed her energy at something that could be positive - instead of trying to fix what can never be fixed might have incredible results. Steven Covey (7 Habits) covers this stuff very well.
On the poem thing - yea, my gut was telling me otherwise. What I did instead was to write one (couldn't help myself) about her being a mom. That way it takes the attention away from me and puts it squarely on her "favorite" job, that being a mom to our three boys. I'll tell you that was more fun to write than the one I wrote about her and I.
Anyway, we'll give that a try and see what happens. Feels more appropriate with Mother's day and all.
Anyway, thanks again Slowly - your venusian view of the world for me is incredibly helpful.....
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Okay, here is my struggle –and I was thinking that it applies not just to my feeling of safeness, but equally to my WAW.
The question that I am struggling with is since I “moved” back and WAW started to “cool” in her interactions with me, I’ve noticed that our communication has changed every so subtly. Now, maybe it hasn’t really changed at all, because when we weren’t under the same roof it was basically pretty superficial and all. However, I would have expected it to get a little deeper at least on some level. It has not. Again, perhaps it is too early for it to have and we have not seen MC for two weeks (we are scheduled to go this week – assuming the floods stop). So I might be reading more into this, but…
It seems that the last four days she has been avoiding me like the plague. In fact, she has worked the past four nights in a row. Friday night she got home at an obscene hour. I’m dying to just plain ask if that is what she is doing – replacing her weekend retreats with OM with this work schedule. Funny enough if you have followed the sitch, this is one reason we are here in the first place – my prioritization of work over all else. Now I see her doing the same.
As a part of my GAL and a years worth of IC, I have completely re-engineered my life around me, my family and God bless her WAW. And I feel great about it. The other day when I said I didn’t like the fact she was going in to work, it was met with, “well, its money”. Frankly, as I move home, money becomes that much less of an issue.
Part of all my self discovery, reading great works like DR, 5LL, Mars/Venus, and For Men Only, I have become acutely aware of WAW’s moods, need to talk through things, etc. And I am good with that.
So, I’m stuck and maybe it is a patience thing (isn’t it always). HOWEVER, I bit my tongue when she came home so late the other day. And I’ve bit my tongue as she has avoided me. Note last night she asked if I was staying at the apartment tonight – meaning I think she wanted me to.
I feel compelled to ask what is going on in her head. Is she okay? Is there something she wants to talk about? I will hold off until the next MC. That is a better forum. And this is her journey as well.
However again, I feel more the need to write down (actually edit) my list of wants from the R. And with that the boundaries that would be necessary. I would not offer them first, quite frankly during the MC, I was going to suggest that she tell me first what she wants from the M/R. I was reading back one of the threads that Shinybear started and it talks about how when you start piecing you have to start again dealing with (y)our stuff. I am having a big trust issue that is made worse when the WAW is hanging out in her well to steal a Mars/Venus thought.
Question is do we idly sit by and wait, or do we push gently the concept of communication and boundary setting….
My worry is not her retreat, but mine….not to old habits…but to my new life…
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
And part of me (or maybe a big part) is wrong with what I did…but….
Anyway, WAW got home from work last night early – she was all worked up because it was a crappy night. Lately, mind you her attitude has been really crappy. I’ve shrugged it off as much as I could, but I’m getting worn out.
So anyway, I gave WAW a mother’s ring for mother’s day. I screwed up on the sizing and needed to get it resized. She was all miffed that I screwed up the size and cut into me. I let that one roll off my back. I told her I would have it resized. Well, I found a jeweler but they needed a week and wanted $80. I was shocked, so I sat on it until yesterday at which time I found one that could do it in a day and was about $20 less. Well, not sure how she came across it on Friday (it was in one of my bags – I think she snooped) but she called me on it last night. She reminded me that my moving home was a trial and that I wasn’t ready. I asked her what she means and she said I am still lying to her. I asked her to explain and she told me that I looked at her bold faced and told her that the ring was at the jewelers getting sized, when in fact it was in my bag. The interesting part is I told WAW that the ring would not be ready until Tuesday the earliest. CMA.
I was exhausted and didn’t want to argue, and therefore made a half hearted attempt. Not good. She ends up pulling the “I see things haven’t changed with you”.
I should have, but did not blow a top on this one. You know what, when you look at something long enough, you will eventually find a flaw. That is how I have felt – I feel constantly scrutinized and under a microscope. I’m going to mess up, I’m going to make mistakes. I made the situation worse by getting into how pissed I am about the OM and whether he is still in the picture. (mind you he called her Saturday night, and yesterday AM). She covered it by saying it was over and that was that. Nothing to talk about. BS.
Anyway, funny enough my IC called me (she owed me a call back) and we got into it a bit on the phone. She said that WAW has got to stop the constant reference back to the “old Erik”. It’s not fair and she is holding it over my head. She (IC) has confirmed that I have changed, but WAW has NOT – which is totally true. She remains bitter and stressed and has continued to focus all her energy toward the wrong places. Anyway, she helped be get up and dust myself off. All good. Admittedly the behaviour above was a bit of the old me but with all I have been carrying, I got behind. But as usual, I sought to make it right – and did. And CMA’s’ the date the ring would be ready – had she not snooped….which I cannot help but wonder.
But this got me thinking again about communication. WAW and I are not communicating on the right level. We’re not seeking to heal. I’m ready. She is not.
Well, I’m just writing this out. Frustrating. I want to take the center stage tomorrow at MC and just propose that we need to have a closed door, knock down, drag out blasting at each other – clear the air – promise that we will listen to each other and then start working some common goals….
Finally interestingly, my IC said to me, “the reference to the old Erik has to stop, because it will wear thin with you”. I told her, “you read my mind, I’m almost there”.
Venting….
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Sven, First thing is that you did not blow your top, a la "old Sven". Did she notice that? Second, she is snooping and this suggests she does not trust you. Her finding the ring confirms her suspicions, in her mind anyway. All this means is that you need to work a little harder on communicating with your WAW. You are fatigued emotionally and mentally from this tremendous ordeal. This is incredibly draining physically as well, but I know you have the strength to persevere. You had a minor backslide and that is okay. When you give her the resized ring give a some flowers to go along with it . Stay cool my friend. Hope to see you soon. Ciao.
This plays to the communication thing you mention - and trust. We fortunately have an MC session tomorrow AM and I suspect it will be a doosey. I have layed out what I want to say - including introducing the thought of us writing out our grievences on a piece of paper and ceremoniously burying or burning them - together. Then because what you focus on expands, writing out our goals as a couple and working toward that....
We'll see....
In the end, she needs to drop that reference card of the "old me". Its not fair and it doesn't make it any easier for me...or her...to get past all this and move forward...
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Sorry to hijack your threat. I read most of it over the last couple of days. It is very inspiring and I can learn a lot from it b/c my sitch is kind of similar. Early on you had a discussion going on about detachment dating w/goal to let WAW pursue YOU.
I thought I try something like this, but it might have backfired completely.
I would appreciate if you or any of the other posters on this thread could have a look at mine in Newcomers and give me their opinion.
WAW got home from work last night – a little spent. I was actually on the floor folding laundry. She plopped on the couch and we talked a bit about her night. She is stressed and in a mood, but I just listen, etc. She nods off. I finished up and went to get her up to come upstairs. She is so cute, half awake she says “I don’t know how”, I respond with a “tell you what, I’ll help you”. Trying to get through to her subconscious. Anyway, at some point on the overnight, she must have put her hand or arm in mine. She must have woken up and seen what she was doing so she “snapped” back her hand. This wakes me of course. She rolls over and then out of bed and is gone for a bit. When she comes back, I wake again (half awake mind you) so I ask if she is okay. “couldn’t sleep, a lot on my mind”. This morning, she remained distant, etc. I was all jovial, started getting the boys ready and then headed off to work.
Here is the cruddy part – and I don’t know what to do with it. Waaayyyyy back when we were first separated I snooped and came across a box of cndms. Now, I don’t need them anymore as I was “fixed” a couple years back. Back then, the box was opened, but all three were there. From time to time, I admit I would check the box and see if they were still there and as recently as three weeks back if I recall, all three were still in the box. Well, low and behold as I was putting some stuff of MINE back in our bathroom drawers, the box was there, so I peeked. Box now only has two of them in it. My heart sank, again. Then the anger started. I know I cannot really address, since I hadn't meantioned finding the box before and knowing that there were three in that at one time. But I'm furious if the use happened in the past several weeks.
So in our thread Newcomers below we are talking about doing things different. You know, I have done NOTHING but improve my listening skills and yet I continue to not be heard. Yesterday WAW brought up again that what she really wants is someone that will protect her, but at the same time will put her in her place when she is being a b—ch. Well, let me tell you, I have been getting a fair amount of that lately – and it is exhausting. During the M, I was the WUSS that would never confront her but I have become so confident now that I feel like I am not being true to myself by not letting her have it. Mind you, not being abusive, etc. but instead really lay into her about how badly it makes me feel that she is treating me like this. And even if I need to, let her know that it p-sses me off. HardHead I think took a similar approach back at the turn of the year. I know one of the M/V things is to NOT tell a venusian to “snap out of it” but I so want to. She is guest in my reality and it is bringing my reality down. I know I can do it in a way that FMO or M/V says and say something like this: “WAW, I care about you a lot and I want our relationship to get better, but I have to tell you that you are…..” and whatever those things might be. And there are several.
I’m really struggling to let this thing lie guys. I figure a couple things. 1) if what you trying isn’t working, try something different. I cannot try any harder to listen if she won’t open up and won’t give me the same courtesy and 2) I’m not sure anything really “bad” will come from it. What is the worse? She says “okay, then let’s D? Well we have been there before and I made it clear yesterday (gently) that I have NO issue with it going there again. And, BTW, she repeatedly says “I cannot imagine my life without you, and I cannot imagine you giving yourself to someone else”. Also, she keeps saying after these MC sessions that “I feel like I am kicking a puppy”. Well guess what, this dog bites. This to me is “changed” communication. Will it be ugly, I suspect so.
For me anyway, I’m getting the sense that I am NOT being true to myself to roll over to her crappy attitude. I let that happen in the M and look where it got me. And, she also has said that the most frustrating thing is not knowing where I am at (in my head). I WANT to and PREFER to start sharing that. What am I violating by being true to myself. I can do all the above, while AA/AV’g her retorts, and while being clear that I EXPECT to be listened to, and not judged. She is in the throws of starting this new business and that will also take a bunch of my time (I’m the default finance person – so I get to incorporate, file papers, write the business plan, etc.) and I want some respect.
Anyway, I’m going to break from a rule tonight of going to my son’s BB game (I’ve been going to all of them so far since WAW seems to always be working) and go to the gym. I can still get to his game by 7:00 or so. I was thinking I could then make us dinner and we could talk about her business and if the ‘tude is still out there, I’d start the convo.
I was getting a venusian view last night from our mutual friend. Her H had an affair years ago. She made him “pay” for it for a year by withdrawing from him, etc. Finally, he just laid into her and they had it out. From there, their R has been great. To me, there is an air clearing (some of which happened yesterday) that needs to happen. I’m ready. I’ve paid my penance for my failure in the M. Time to put that behind us.
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Even now, every time I feel things between NG and I going a bit umm predictable, I pull a mystery, and it wakes him up. 
