Quote: BTW, you can be around more and genuinely engaged when you are WITHOUT pursuing her, and you can do so in a frame of mind in which you have really let go, at least for awhile, to give her time to CHOOSE YOU.
Ok, this makes more sense to me. I think I have been successful in this for the most part, but I could surely do more. I think during that recent R talk, I made it clear to me AND her that I HAD let go. I told her that while she was not my child to "give permission" to, I wanted her to know that she WAS free to go if that is what she chose to do, that while I would fight for her, I would not "stop" her anymore. That started off the whole part of the convo I posted about earlier today where she talked about fearing I would "not be able to go on" if she left me, etc.
I think she really believes that I will be ok if things don't work out and I feel good about that. It means I have done pretty good DBing and GAL (or in my case, actually enjoying the life I already had).
I want to point out too, that many DBers or people in general FEAR greatly this idea that their WAS will think they are "ok" and take it as a pass to leave. This is my thought on that; if the only reason they were staying was because they thought you would die without them, then your R was not real anyway. Remove all the ties that bind, i.e. set them free, and you will see what the true marriage is made of.
I hope I have been able to do that in my sitch. I WAS one of the most needy, clingy, passive/aggressive people you'd ever want (or not want) to meet and I am now something approaching a confident, independent man who SEEMS to know what he wants from his life/wife.
I will end with a little aside that is semi-off topic but I do think it illustrates the basic changes I made.
My W used to ask me periodically what I wanted from life. Usually the conversation would turn to what I wanted from my photography career, etc. I would always either say I didn't know or some other vague thing that conveyed the idea of "I just want to be happy and with my family." I always thought that was what she wanted to hear. I was SO wrong. I now realize that my W wanted to hear that I was still the passionate, driven man she married. Instead I showed her I had completely given up all that made me appealing to her ALL IN HER NAME! Not only did I stop being "that guy" but I in effect blamed her.
Now, I KNOW what I want from my career and she can see that. I am back into it with all the passion and determination that she used to see from me and it is carrying over into other parts of my life.
I think the key to this is understanding that it's very hard to have true passion in your life if that passion is 100% about another person. You have to have SOMETHING in your life that they can look to and see a vibrant human being, forging in the world to make their own path to happiness. Otherwise you become a passenger on THEIR journey and for many people, the idea of a full-time passenger is not an appealing one...
That was pure philosophical journaling but I need to get some of that stuff out every once in awhile.
Quote: Anyway, my point is that just as WAS are not evil, some/many OP's may just be people who allow themselves, or choose to be in situations that THEY feel justified being in, for love or some other reason.
NAH, the OP is still pure evil lol
Of course I say that in jest, but I think OT is definitely on to something there...typically the LBS do see the OP as evil and conniving when in fact they are just people, like us.
In any event GH, you have once again proven yourself to be a master. I applaud your efforts and, like OT, if I were a betting man, I would definitely put my money on you and your W having a very fruitful, loving relationship. It is fantastic to see you in such good spirits.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
It's been awhile since I called out for help, but I really need it now as much as ever. I am shaking.
I was doing laundry for my wedding shoot tomorrow and W asked me to put some stuff in for her. As usual, I was cleaning out her pockets and found a reciept. It was not folded so when I pulled it out, I could read it...and I did for some reason. There were a few things but the last thing was a pregnancy test. I looked at the date and it was dated for early this month.
I had to walk right past W and I don't think I gave her any clue what I just found. I even chatted with her before comming up here.
I don't know what to do. As I always tell you, this doesn't change anything other than now I KNOW for a fact that she's had sex with him, and since we've been back from Ireland. I don't know if it was one last time, or if it is ongoing.
I am shaking so much. I think I can just move on from this but I need help. I need advice.
OT, I know one of the first things you are going to say is that now all the unprotected sex stuff comes in. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. My W is irregular and thought she was pregnant when we were having sex more than a few times even though we used condoms every time. She is very paranoid about that so I don't know for sure what this means but at the very least, it shakes me badly.
I think if I confront her with this she will even try to lie and say it's for a friend so I am hesitant to do that because I don't know how I would react.
My instinct tells me to try as hard as I can to give this some more time but it is REALLY hard to keep this one to myself. Do I confront her? Do I DB and just take my own advice of not letting things that don't really change the sitch affect me? Does the really NOT change my sitch?
The sex COULD have taken place before our recent talks. That's the hard part. If I react strongly to this, like my emotions want me to now, I may be reacting to something that is past-tense but what if it's not? I am confused.
The worst part is that KNOWING, even though I said I knew, is affecting my ability to "act as if" and do all my touching etc. She will notice that and so then what? I feel stuck somewhat.
I'm not sure what my advice is worth at this point but, I think you should sit on it for awhile. You've made tremendous progress and this may set it back. Maybe wait to see if she comes to you with the information. If it's negative, she may never tell you...but if it's positive she can't hide it forever.
at least take a few days so that you are acting with your head and not with your heart.
Thanks pmd. That's what my head says to do. Here's the dilemma...
Those of you that have followed me for any length of time may know that at several points along my threads I have posted that I knew my W had a PA and was not telling me, rather, insisting it was an EA.
I posted that at some point I came to grips with that and forgave her for it. I feel that how I react to finding what I believe to be evidence of a PA is going to either prove that I was telling the truth to you and myself about being ok with the PA, or lying and in denial the whole time.
IF I truly knew, then I should be able to "sit on this" for awhile and not need to confront her. After all, she's been lying all this time, and as much as admitted to the PA in our last R talk so what does this change?
I guess I always figured she would tell me. I never thought I would "find out" this way. I guess as much as the knowledge itself it's the shock of HOW I know, and also that extra visceral idea of her needing a pregnancy test because of what they did.
I am now face to face with it and I feel like this is my ultimate test. I am not feeling too strong right now. I still want things to work but more than anything, I want to know that THAT part of it is over, for good and I know I can't know that because either I won't ask/confront her about it, or she'll lie if I do.
I am going to have to decompress a bit. I will monitor the board for the next few hours but I am going to try to focus and get hold of myself. This is REALLY hard.
If she was having a PA, at what point did you believe it to have been over?
I ask this because it may not still be going on but if it had been, even just a couple months ago, then she could reasonably just now be feeling that she may be pregnant.
Imagine for a moment that that is what happened. Imagine how scared she must be to have even had to TAKE the test, knowing that it was over and you two are trying to reconcile....
Could that be what is happening and it not be as bad as you think? You CAN deal with the fact it was a PA rather than an EA. You CAN deal with her never having owned up to it and finding out this way. She will be sorry that that happened, but let's assume the best instead of the worst. The need to take that test was a lingering result of an affair. An affair that is over.
You can do this. You have what it takes. I know you do.
Ok, this confirms the PA. Knowing this information does not change anything. The OW in my sitch could be going thru the same thing right now too for all I know. This is just a big slap in your face. Why did she leave it in her pocket, is the question. I think something like this she would definitely want to hide. Anyway, you knew it was physical all along, this just confirms it. Who care? She said they are over, right? Just put it in the back pocket for now and keep on doing what you are doing. I know easier said than done. Do you drink? just kidding or not. Anyway, put the A and the OM out of your mind. You are the best and most respected DB'er on this board, you CAN handle this. Best of luck to you, Mama
Amy, I know I do too but sometimes I wish I didn't. Sometimes I wish I could just go OFF like I want to. I am still shaking so badly. I need to calm down. I KNOW I already knew this but...
It's like when I used to fight in Martial Arts tournaments. It's one thing to know you're going to get hit, quite another when that first one lands. This feels like one landed squarely in the you-know-where.
Quote: If she was having a PA, at what point did you believe it to have been over?
I don't KNOW she was, I just always suspected she was. I had NO evidence until now to support that theory so I never really put a time frame on it. I suppose I assumed it was going on the entire time they were seeing each other and maybe it stopped when we went to Ireland. I seriously never really thought about a time frame.
Quote: Imagine for a moment that that is what happened. Imagine how scared she must be to have even had to TAKE the test, knowing that it was over and you two are trying to reconcile....
This was one of my first thoughts. It's honestly what made me just come up here and post insetead of confronting her, or at least what gave me a little more strenght to do so.
Quote: Could that be what is happening and it not be as bad as you think?
Yes. It could be. It think it is the most probabale scenario but you never know. It still hurts. Like I said, I just got a right hook the the "mid-section."
Quote: You CAN deal with the fact it was a PA rather than an EA.
Yes, I can...I think. I claim to always HAVE been dealing with it as if it was a PA so I'd better be able to handle it now that I know almost for sure.
Quote: She will be sorry that that happened, but let's assume the best instead of the worst. The need to take that test was a lingering result of an affair.
Yes. This would be the best. I hope that's the case. The not knowing is really bothering me and I don't usually let that get to me.
P.S. LET THIS BE LESSON #12232352 in the reasons why snooping is BAD (even though I was not technically snooping). I "knew" she was having a PA but the piece of paper brought it home in a way no "idea" ever could and ALMOST pushed me over the edge and in to doing something (R talk) that I could have regretted...hell, I am still considering it so it may HAVE pushed me over that edge.
Quote:
You can do this. You have what it takes. I know you do.
I hope so Amy, I really do. This just came so unexpected. I try SO hard not to snoop and then this. It's why I stopped snooping so long ago. It's why I tell others not to. This really sucks.
I need to go back to my couch and stare at basketball, listen to some more music and hope I can control myself.
Thanks Mama. I really appreciate you giving me my own advice...lol. I was hoping to hear a bit of my own medicine. I know it doesn't change anything but it FEELS like it does.
And no, I famously don't drink. About now I really wish I did.
I think you really need to talk to her about this and share your feelings. You also need to get crystal clear about health risks AND what she has been doing.
Her lies and deceit over this are defensive on her part and a sure barrier to any kind of forward progress in your M, emotionally and/or physically.
You are a human being. You deserve to be informed and understand what is going on so that you can make your own choices. She is robbing you of your autonomy. You do not need to accept this treatment. She will respect you more if you do not. And, more importantly, you will respect yourself more I expect.
I'm so sorry this has happened. I can't say I'm at all surprised. And yes, even if she used a condom everytime, she needs to be tested for STDs. Condoms do not protect against herpes which is transmitted via dermis not covered. And, they do not protect 100% against other STDs and AIDs. If she had unprotected sex, she will almost certainly lie about it. This probably has a lot to do with her panic attacks.
You both need to quit running away from the truth and deal with it, IMPO.
Take care and hang in there. All that has changed is that you received confirmation about something you didn't know.
Also, to repeat, no matter how sincere and heartfelt her confessions are right now, you CANNOT TRUST her to tell you the truth about the sex. People lie about these things. The whole truth might not come out for a year, or never.
You owe it to yourself and S not to risk your health.
lol
or not. Anyway, put the A and the OM out of your mind. You are the best and most respected DB'er on this board, you CAN handle this. Best of luck to you, Mama