I know you will read my post. Rest assured, there were a lot of NEW things said. I may not have posted a lot of it but again, I was VERY aware of trying to say something new, and most of all, to express how I FELT without worrying about how she would take it. Things like telling her OM had to go before we could move forward and talking openly (which went on for about 20 minutes, a lot of the details I left out) about our/my intimacy issues. Again, I feel really good that we could have that talk but a little sad/bad that I now know she is not "done" with this whole thing. She did say at one point that she has never given up on us and that she still wanted to work things out but that it was just "hard" to deal with all this stuff.
Having read that monster post over again, I think it comes across as much more "me talking a lot and telling her what she thinks" than it was. It was a LOT of her talking and not much me. The points where I told her what she thinks were at points where she either asked me if I understood something or, and this was especially true of the intimacy convo, when I just needed to make sure she knew I understood what MY issues were without her telling me. That involved a little speculation on my part about how she felt but I seemed to be right on.
I guess I am just posting my side, so I tend to post what I say most of all. I wish I could convey the context but it is so hard to do.
This was the first time in our entire relationship where I managed to stifle my normal urge to interrupt and interject all the time. I just listened, validated and then shared my thoughts when appropriate. I learned a LOT about my W last night. Things that I can focus on when we begin the real work of repairing this relationship.
Wow, you did great. It is really wonderful that you opened up some and a critical time to do so. She was getting fed up with giving up OM for more of the same and you made it clear that that is NOT what you want.
You set boundaries without issuing ultimatums. You shared things that are hard for you to admit to yourself.
No matter what happens, I'd say that conversation is the most important thing that has happened in terms of you having a good relationship as H/W or simply co-parents in the future.
It is great that she is opening up more about the PA. I think you are right that she is only sharing a little there -- testing you, but even moreso it is all she can tolerate in terms of facing herself just yet.
I think you said money has been pretty decent lately. Can you get her a gift certificate to a cab company so she has a bit of freedom?
GH, you are in a good place right now. Everything is out in the open. You know how she feels and she knows how you feel.
Take your own advice:
Quote: I know that I need more patience and all this talk of intimacy is too much, too soon. She needs to put this OM thing behind her and until she does, I need to DB my ass off and do what's best for me as I have been for the last 5 months.
I have been catching up on your posts and am truly amazed by your R talk with your wife last night. Your W is so lucky to have you. If all human beings could be so unconditionally loving as you have been, the world would be such a much better place. I get that it remains to be seen whether her self esteem and mental health will allow her to stay with you or if she will choose a more destructive path, more familiar to her (such as continuing the controlling manipulative R with OM). But your advice to yourself:
Quote: I still see this as a step forward. I still see things as progressing towards reconciliation. What this talk did for ME was once again let me feel like she knows where I stand, and that I understand where SHE stands. I know that I need more patience and all this talk of intimacy is too much, too soon. She needs to put this OM thing behind her and until she does, I need to DB my ass off and do what's best for me as I have been for the last 5 months. It's too soon to think about anything else.
is the best advice any of us could give you right now. I see this as a very positive step, for your M but also for you. It is helpful to receive information periodically and know what's going on. Your W is beginning to get that you are on her side. Continue to love her, and supporting yourself in retaining a detached stance - take care of yourself today. I am glad for you that you had this talk on so many levels, particularly because you got a very good indicator about where she is at in relation to you, to OM, and to sex - all three of which you wanted more information about. If you can bring your warm undemanding self home to greet her today again, she is going to feel safer and safer in trusting you to value her needs rather than trying to control her. And she will continue to share with you. The OM baboon is clearly trying to control her - I think she will see this eventually. She is just addicted to a pattern of destructive behavior of which he is a symbol. My H had a habit of choosing needy women to rescue in his past, and I was a pretty distinct departure from this. But his OW is a needy woman (in a bad marriage, father in the hospital, nobody loves her, nobody appreciates her but him, blah, blah, blah) and he was drawn to that once again, just like he was drawn to her as a connection to his past because she lives in his country of origin. My H has to decide what is healthiest for him in his life, and if he wants a new future or to return to a familiar past, just as much as he has to decide if he wants to be with me. Patience and time are on your side. GH, you are the best. Hang in there, and be proud of your accomplishments. If your W works all of this out and chooses to fully recommit to your M, you will have an amazing R because of the work you are doing. I believe that in her heart she wants this. She is just needing to strengthen her muscles in this new area of making healthy choices. Be a role model for her - make some good, healthy choices for you today!
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Thanks OT. I too think it was a really important talk, especially because as I said, I didn't intend to have it, nor was I particularly ready for it but I could not let anymore time go by without her knowing some thing and most importantly, me finding some things out about HER that I didn't know.
I don't know if this means we are farther along than a day ago. Part of me thinks we must be but another part of me, the part that was in denial about OM, thinks that some of what I now know sets us back a bit.
So as usual, 2 steps forward, one (or more) back. The important thing is that we DID talk and it was emotional, animated at times, but always respectful and honest (at least I was honest and I THINK she was). No defensiveness from either of us was a welcome change.
GH
Quote: I think you said money has been pretty decent lately. Can you get her a gift certificate to a cab company so she has a bit of freedom?
OT, what a GREAT idea. Thank you. I would never have thought of that! I will look into it!
Quote: I have been catching up on your posts and am truly amazed by your R talk with your wife last night.
Thanks PL. I am somewhat amazed myself, lol.
Quote: f all human beings could be so unconditionally loving as you have been, the world would be such a much better place.
I don't know if all of it has been unconditional love. It's some measured parts of love, fear, strength and weakness all rolled into one with a lot of hard work binding it all together.
Quote: I see this as a very positive step, for your M but also for you. It is helpful to receive information periodically and know what's going on. Your W is beginning to get that you are on her side.
I think you are right. I needed to get caught up on things and that happened. I DO think she is figuring out that I am on her side. The bad news is that I am figuring out just how little SHE's on MY side after all this. She is working her way back but she's much farther away than I hoped.
Quote: If your W works all of this out and chooses to fully recommit to your M, you will have an amazing R because of the work you are doing. I believe that in her heart she wants this. She is just needing to strengthen her muscles in this new area of making healthy choices. Be a role model for her - make some good, healthy choices for you today!
I think so too. I think IF we work this out, we'll be GREAT. That's what I told her. I said I wanted to paint a positive picture for her because other people (OM) and her own experience with US has painted such a dull, gloomy one. She seemed to embrace my positive projection of our future. We'll see if that embrace is fleeting or something more permanent.
Quote: I have not commented on your sitch before, but I try and read everything you post to other members. I find you advice to be amazing, and you have helped me alot just reading your posts.
Thank you. I really appreciate being able to somehow help.
Quote: I guess all I can say to you is to try and reach down inside of you and find more patience than you ever thought you could have with her.
Yes. Indeed, this is what I need to do now.
Quote: I feel like I am trying to give advice to the master DBer, but anyway, I just thought I would let you know I keep up with your sitch.
Master...not. Student...yes. Thank you so much for keeping up with me. Every little kick in the arse I can get counts.
Quote: What part of the Sunshine state are you in?
From your convo with your W last night I see that you got alot of good advice. Overall I see it as a positive.
I am not sure if this was covered in a past post by you or someone else so Sorry if you have heard this before.
Quote: YES, that's it exactly. You never touch me and when you did, it was ALWAYS to have sex. I love having sex with you but over time I got so turned off by the way you went about it.
That right there is the magic key for all us guys. Women want non-sexual touching. I believe it is right up there with being a good listener as the top 2 things we can do to keep our women happy.
1. Listen 2. Non-sexual touching
Anyway, I see we are Neighbors. small world isn't it.
Well, MDA, I think you are right. I know you are right when it comes to my W. I think she first of all, misses the non-sexual touching that really, we never had in our R. Secondly, she may miss the sex.
She said that she NEEDS the touching and WANTS the sex. I told her that before last night, I never knew she wanted me to touch her. Man, was I off...
