Sorry in advance for the long, even for me, post. Venting a bit here.
Quote: there's times I would kill for this....no talk, nothing - just do it!!!! Something about the savage caveman not being able to control his lust for me....somehow, that's a turn-on.
Ok, fine, I REALLY get that, and there were plenty of times in the past when I did this. Now, however, like I said, I am NOT going to do this when she even rejects a simple kiss for God's sake. I know what OT said about her maybe rejecting something that seems devoid of passion because she is "used" to different now that she's been with OM. I guess I will have to somehow infuse more passion in my attempts but I swear I HAVE been doing that with no positive response at all from her.
Quote: IMO, you've got a great fear of her rejection. I mean, she just came out of A with OM....even if you don't want to admit, I'm sure it's there festering in the back of your mind. Because you know she was with OP, maybe now your subconscious is saying "if she really loves me, if she really wants to work on our M, she WILL initiate".
I know what we do her a LOT of the time, and it is one of the most helpful things we do for each other, is read between the lines. Reading between the lines, I guess that's what I am saying, but I assure you, I am MORE than willing to initiate but as I said, I NEED HER TO GIVE ME any indication that she wants that from me. Just her presence in the house or my bed is NOT that indication. IF I have some test set up for her, if I am doing the "if she loves me she'll..." thing, it's only that I want her to do ANYTHING that conveys physical attraction/desire for me. ANYTHING. Touch me on the arm, initiate a hug, even make a comment about me looking good at some time other than when I am leaving or with the kids. ANYTHING. Does that make sense? I can't properly convey how my W doesn't EVER physically express feelings for me. Does she not have them? If not, maybe we DON'T need to be in this M. I KNOW I need to do things to cultivate her desire for me but she has to at least step onto the court before I can play the game. Sorry for the bad sports analogy but forgive me, I am a guy after all.
Quote: think the two of you are at the point where you can pursue her. She wants those "in love" feelings....do whatever you can to make them come back to her. What's her LL's? Do them. If you don't have time right now - I think I read this somewhere in your thread - pre-plan a date. Pick a Saturday night, set up babysitting for the kids overnight. Go to a restaurant that was your favorite as a couple - doesn't matter if it was McD's or Shells (my FL fave!!) or wherever....or try somewhere new you've both been wanting to go to.
I AM pursuing her. That's the problem. Even the other day, and I don't think I posted this and I should have, she said after I kinda gave her a little hug "you're always grabbing me these days." in a not-so-happy-about-it tone. I AM NOT grabbing her. I used to do that and this is a far cry from it, but what I think she was saying was that she noticed I was touching her more and she didn't much care for it. Sure, I merely walked away and sure, she could have meant "well why don't you TOUCH me then you dumbass" but I didn't get that message. As for her LL, I know what they are (I think) and I have been doing things to appeal to LL for months now. It seems to have little effect other than maybe to make her feel loved enough to drop the OM but maybe not enough to take US any farther.
As for the date, once again, I have been on a relentless campaign to set up babysitting and she refuses to either help with that or go along with it if I do it on my own. I really don't know what's wrong with her. It's like she things she should be happy stuck in the house all the time, like she did the OM thing and now should be content to sit home on Friday/Saturday night and vegetate in front of the TV. I tell her that's not what I want and I am going to work to change it but she stops me short of doing it. I have even arranged for a sitter and planned things and she will just tell me that she would rather do it next weekend, etc. I really can't figure it out.
As for all those other things, well, lets just say that my W doesn't really like to do much. She likes movies, theatre, concerts (have tickets for 2 weeks from now), eating out and sometimes, having a drink at a club. Bowling, putt-putt, silly, fun things, not for her. I have tried, I really have. With two boys under 6 you'd think she would be able to loosen up and do some of the "fun" stuff but to this point, nope, it's all me in that dept, even with the boys let alone her.
Quote: My point - start at the beginning. When you first started dating, I'm sure you just didn't jump into bed. You dated, you let the excitement build. There ARE ways to do this, GH. Get the "in love" feelings back. You just have to find them. Whatever it takes to make your W look at you differently.
That's just it. I think she DOES look at me differently but not in THAT way. I am back to being the "great guy" I was for the first 6-7 years of our marriage that it seems did nothing for her in the passion dept, instead of the angry man who was pissy and yelled at the kids 24/7. It is a good thing, but not good enough.
I know you, OT and others who have chimed in on this are right. I know I need to somehow change what I am doing, but I sincerely think I have, several times as a matter of fact. I have tried to stop going down cheeseless tunnels. I have tried things and monitored the results and so far, other than a significantly improved daily interaction, there have been none that I can see.
As for how things were when we first started dating, I am glad you brought that up because when we first dated and then finally became intimate, she DID give me a clue she wanted it and I DID initiate from there. I was glad to because she gave me the "signals" that she was open and ready for it. Now all the signals I get are "stay the hell away from me". It's really hard to get past that. Sorry ladies, it just is. Call it the male ego, call it what you want, but it's real.
Quote: Put the ML issues - the intimacy issues - to the side FOR NOW. You know there's issues - as long as they are dealt with in the future - it's not avoiding them. Rather I think it makes you more in tune with getting them resolved.
Once the two of start getting comfortable with each other, those issues can be dealt with. When you start to get to that better place where, you can tell her just how her lack of initiation bothers you. I don't think that time is now.
This is what I AM doing now but as you can see, I am getting frustrated and I need to stop being that way. I will try to put this aside for now. And to clarify, I am not trying to deal with nor am I frustrated by her lack of initiation right now, I am frustrated by her rejecting anything I try to do to be physically intimate with her, from hugs to hand holding to kissing. I am not so stubborn that I actually think she should initiate ML right now. IF she never did in the past, there is no way in HELL she would do it now, with how she probably feels, and how she thinks I feel. I am not looking for that. Please realize that.
NM, I am not so far gone that I can't function with W in a "normal" way. I don't express this frustration around the house. I vent it here in hopes that you and others will offer posts like this one that make me think and give me better/different ideas. Even though I repudiated some of what you said, I did hear it and I AM listening. This is just a very tough issue for me and I am having trouble understanding a lot of what I need to do or not do.
I'll be fine. It's just that at some point, as has already happened a few times when this boils over in me, I will probably express myself in a not-so-pleasant way to my W out of pure frustration and that will set me back months.
In the end, this is what I want. I just want my W to indicate she is ready to "begin" working towards a M that includes intimacy and affection. So far, she seems only ready for a M that includes co-habitation and co-parenting with the occasional back rub thrown in for good measure.
