My heart goes out to you. I know how confused you must be for your H to go hot and cold the way he did. And I know you're trying to honor what he's telling you, and grow from it. I've been there, and I also know how defeated you must feel.
Maybe I'm picking up on your thread mid-stream and have no right to respond to your most recent post, since I admittedly haven't educated myself on your whole history. But as someone whose H told her he hated her and all the mean things I'm sure you've also heard, I feel compelled to ask you not to beat yourself up too much over your mistakes and what you heard your H say.
Sure, accept it, honor it and grow from it. But don't let it beat you down to the point that you're willing to give up because you feel like a failure. You're not. Your H is lashing out. There's a time and place for that. And when you've had enough of it, there will be a time and place for you to tell him you've heard enough.
Sometimes, we feel so badly for our mistakes that we allow abusive verbal behavior by our Ss. I did it. It's almost like we feel we owe that to our Hs ... like we're paying penance or something. And maybe we are ... as long as it makes *us* feel better.
But let enough be enough when you're ready. Learn from it, and release it. You don't have to "pay," by being kicked out of your house, for mistakes you made in the past.
Be good to yourself, always, okay? You're working so very hard and accepting your responsibility. There's a lot to be said for that. Pat yourself on the back for me today, will ya?
I hear what you're saying. Actually, it was more ME that was the one who didn't watch what they said in fights, etc. in our M. I said some pretty nasty things, demanding, etc. H is being verbal, but after he revealed A to me this Friday, I told him that right then, I hated him so badly. He said the same thing to me months after the bomb--he said he loathed me.
It's horrible that we've sunk to this level. What he said does not bother me. It's the FIRST time he's speaking up. Sure, the level of anger is a bit overboard, but then I remember how many times I dealt anger at a level too high for the crime.
I hope he vents more to me, I hope I hear his rage/anger. I want to, need to....I think this is a phase that needs to happen. All this time, he said that he has not faced his anger/pain, and this is the time. I guess I feel lucky that BEFORE he did, he said his heart, these last weeks, has really softened to me, he has remembered his love and the wonderful things in me. So, I hope a little of that is still there.
I'm not giving up and I don't feel like a failure. I feel like I made lots of mistakes....things I can change over, and I have. I feel that I am more self-aware, and am proud of the work that I've done.
Frankly, patience and understanding were never things I showed enough in M, while H did. Now, I think in the ultimate circumstance, I have demonstrated outstanding levels of each.....waiting detached and lovingly for 4 months while an A played out. Understanding it (yes, I was ANGRY, but that was 4 months of stuff pent up, the lies, etc), but understanding, grateful for the truth, etc. Even friends said that women would not handle things the same as I did and it was admirable.
I'm not tooting my horn, but while I make mistakes here and there, I'd say the last 7-9 months I've stepped up to the plate plenty.
I guess the thing I'm worried about is that his anger will fizzle to cold indifference where he's ready for a D. I hope not. But, at this phase, I can't even DB or anything, I'm in the dark and maybe that's for the best right now.
I'm not giving up and I don't feel like a failure. I feel like I made lots of mistakes....things I can change over, and I have. I feel that I am more self-aware, and am proud of the work that I've done.
I, too, had a major moment (or five) of self-realization throughout my separation. I realized that I, in fact, had played a big part in why my H eventually left. I realized, through some help on these boards, that I had participated in "cheapening" my M. I took my H for granted. I always thought he'd be around, regardless of what I said or did. Boy, was I wrong.
And I paid the price for it, as you have. I think that's why I dealt with his rage with as much patience as I did (not that I handled it perfectly, mind you; I lost it with him every now and again). But there was a part of me that truly felt that I deserved the things he said to me ... like he deserved to be able to say them, too.
And a part of me, to this day, is glad he got those things off his chest, and I'm glad, in a twisted way, that he felt comfortable lashing out at me.
I guess the thing I'm worried about is that his anger will fizzle to cold indifference where he's ready for a D.
Wow, wow, wow. Good for you for understanding that the opposite of love is *not* hate; it's indifference. That's something that folks had to keep reminding me every time my H lashed out at me, told me to "get rid" of the baby, said he hated me, he was ashamed that I would be the mother of his son, etc. Good for you for understanding that there's a very fine line between love and hate. They both stem from the same emotion.
At the same time, however, I wouldn't want you to allow your H to feel as though you're going to tolerate his "venting" forever. If you give him that impression, then you enable him to continue doing it. The last thing you want to do is show him that the more abusive he gets, the more you fall at his feet. Mind you, I'm certainly not saying that's what you're doing. I just want you to forgive yourself. And it sounds like you have a really good handle on that. Let him vent, but if it ever gets to a point when you feel enough is enough, let it be.
Well you had quite a week I am sorry that things are rough right now. However, I am still quite hopeful for you. I think your H needs to get angry, this is a natural phase of his process. Remember that underneath every angry reaction is also hurt. Your H is hurting. And he will even be hurting about his own display of anger, because he really doesn't like to be angry or he would have done it more often in your M. It could be that he was just not prepared to deal with your feelings yet - it may have been too soon, too much for him. He may just need validation that his feelings are understandable, to know that you understand. I hope you will have an opportunity to express that to him at some point.
So meanwhile, Always, what are you going to do for yourself? Time to boost yourself with some loving nurturing pampering things for you! You need to be your best self, so that when that next opening does come with H, you will be READY. What fun things can you do for yourself today? This will make the most difference in your continuing PMA. It will boost your patience and understanding, and your self esteem. The work you are doing is important! And it has taken a lot of energy. Time to replenish yourself, take some deep breaths and prepare your heart for the next opportunity, whenever that is. You said:
Quote: I guess the thing I'm worried about is that his anger will fizzle to cold indifference where he's ready for a D. I hope not. But, at this phase, I can't even DB or anything,
Remember, alot of DBing isn't about him, it's about YOU. He has given you a gift of a little time for yourself. What are you going to do with this precious gift?
Hang in there always. I admire you so much. You are doing a fantastic job. Just continue to hang in there, and be really, really good to yourself.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
You posted to me a few months back when I had a thread, and it seemed that we had very similar situations. After reading your latest, I see that to be very true.
For what it's worth, I too was the verbal one in my M while my H just sat and took it all. I was always upping the ante, trying to get a reaction out of him. I didn't think he cared about what I was saying due to his lack of reaction most of the time.
Oh, he cared. And the things I said/did hurt him, A LOT. So, he left. Funny thing is that he left almost 2 years AFTER I figured out this whole DBing stuff.
But, like your H, that is when he found his voice. He still struggles to use it, but he is working on it. I have found that if I sit and listen to his venting and really take ownership of what I did, he bounces back pretty quickly. It doesn't mean that we don't have pretty much the same conversations again (and again and again), but they are becoming fewer and farther between and they are shifting more from "this is what you did" to "this is what I would like from you."
It is a long process and not for the weak of heart!
I am glad that you see the big picture, and that instead of responding with defensiveness you are listening with love. This is all you can do at this point.
People would tell me that I didn't have to listen to all of his venting. But, I did, and I still do. He needs to get rid of it all if we are to have a chance here.
It gets better. I just wanted you to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Pam
P.S. The name "CMNM" stands for "Crazy maker no more!" -you have no idea how bad I was.
Thank you SO much for the wonderful responses, please keep them coming! I really need it.
Last night was great. Watched a lot of TV, laughed and just was by myself, and it was nice. I I felt great last night and do today. I felt strong, alive. I felt myself getting excited to do things, this weekend and week, on my own or with friends. I felt excited exploring new things in life, etc. Not that H prevented me from doing things, but his work schedule and workaholic life (and during our M, he was so tied with his anger about work, etc that he didn't engage in life together much) prevented much of this, b/c I always felt badly about doing things on my own, wanted him to join. That was seen as needy. Then when I did things on my own, it was seen as "not wanting to be married" by H. Can't win for losing.
I feel 'alive' b/c for the better part of a year I have been so stressed by our M stuff. It's nice to not deal with that, and I suspect it's been nice for H too.
I feel good about my changes and self-awareness. This space, I'm realizing, is really good for me. These last months, all I did was focus on the changes in me (hence the bad things) and H's needs, which was good. Now, with this space, lots of MY needs in the M are surfacing....as well as the things in H that were issues for me.
All in all I felt good about the last year too. It's been tough, painful and a horror show at times, took my life to a point I never thought it would go. But, I feel so much stronger for it, so much oportunity for growth that I took from it. Plus, there are people out there suffering from so much more in life than this. I was lucky to have had the wonderful love of a man, and still have a great life.
You have been kind to me, posting many times to my thread and I feel I have not returned the favor. Unfortunately, I don't feel I have much to add other than it seems like you are taking all this REALLY well, and with a spirit I have not seem much of around here lately. There are some trying things going on in your life and you are rolling with each and every one of them, refusing to let them define or defile you. Yours is a true position of inner strength and I think you will have the patience to see this through.
Please, keep this spirit alive and don't let the temporary things in this life get you down.
You really are doing so well, even if to you it seems like you are only doing good on your thread but not in "real" life. Trust me, you are a much better person than you were at the start of all of this, LOOK at all of the people you have helped - if not for the "bomb" you would not be here and your words of wisdom and encouragement would be missed dearly. Hang in there sister!!! I am routing for ya!
GH and Mama, thanks for visiting. Yes, these are weird times. Strangely, I feel good. I kinda made myself have a good cry last night, as I've been feeling rather unemotional in the sadness department this week. Just want to make sure it's not penting up. Weird, because for he last 7 months I've been so leaky.
Did some shopping and hung out last night. The place I'm staying has a nice gym, so worked out and am really excited about my routine and maybe stepping that up a bit. Things at work are going smoothly, lots of nice projects in the works.
Oddly, I feel OK. This morning I woke up with lots of nice memories of H. I thought about the A, etc. and it was sad, a little painful, but not intense. I guess it's because I've lived with it for so many months now. I feel understanding and forgiving of H.
Really, I'm seeing that this space apart is wonderful for me. I don't think I had the guts to do it on my own, but see now that I needed it so much. * Takes us both out of a stressful environment, and allows us to finally pull the cork on the emotions/feelings we've held back to 'get through' living together in a tough time.
* It's given me space to see what the R that I had issues with. What with H that I had issues with. I'm making a list and thinking of how to address these things, should he want out M to work. They are things that definately need to change for me and contributed to the demise as well.
* Given me space to let all the good memories come back. The good times, little and big things he did for me and what they really meant, to me and to him. Gives me insight into H, what means a lot to him to give and to receive. I was lucky that while he was facing his anger Sunday night, he vented about what he needed in the M and how I failed. I wished I heard that long ago.
* this morning I woke up with lots of wonderful memories and a weird sense of hope. A non-anxious, no-timeline sense of hope and pleasant thoughts. Regardless of how this turns out, I don't want to look back at H or my M and not remember the good times. Funny, this is a stage that H said he was facing lately too.
* The space, combined with H cutting OW/FF's out of his life and stopping that has really allowed him to face pain and his love. He said this and I can see how it makes clear sense. You really can't have one with out the other. If you feel pain, anger it means you still have feelings, strong ones. Of course, it may settle to indifference for H, and that will be sad/ I guess I feel lucky that before I left, his heart did start opening up to the love for me again....and I also feel lucky that he's facing his anger. I would never want that to stay with him. It was only after I stopped being "detached" and got angry about the A/OW this past weekend (when I flipped) that I am able to get to a stable place of feeling love for H. My emotions are not blocked, nor are they roller coastering. I had to let the anger out and face it. He needs to do the same. After you let it out, you're faced with...."so, that sucked. I was really hurt and angry. I hated you for that. I really disrespected you. But, through it all I still love you and now I have to figure out what I wanted in this M in the first place, and if this is worth getting rid of you and living a life without you will be better or not." Also, letting out my anger allowed me to start seeing again the things I did in the M and to have compassion for H again, which, the last months were really hard for me to muster. Of course, I'm still working through the pain, forgiving and forgetting. But, I can see the path for myself.
* It's allowed me to get back to the person I want to be. All this time I've been GAL, but in the context of H and M. I've been changing who I am in the M. But now, I really feel free, alive and strong. I feel I'm getting back to the person I was before I became the controlling, irritable and unhappy person in our M. I can really see the things now that contributed and take responsibility. I don't feel that being upbeat and happy is an effort now....it's much easier and the real me.
* The space, without talking, is good. In a way, all this time, I always wondered how it would go if we reconciled fully to make a full effort to make it work. In some deep fantasy, I wanted to press the "restart" button. Sort of have a break, clear the air and myself in order to throw yourself back in. Date again, fall in love again. Of course, this is all IF H wants this....so I'm reigning in the fantasies.
Thanks for posting all your comments. It really helps me a lot. Thank you and please keep them coming.
I am sorry that things are rough right now. However, I am still quite hopeful for you. I think your H needs to get angry, this is a natural phase of his process. Remember that underneath every angry reaction is also hurt. Your H is hurting. And he will even be hurting about his own display of anger, because he really doesn't like to be angry or he would have done it more often in your M. It could be that he was just not prepared to deal with your feelings yet - it may have been too soon, too much for him. He may just need validation that his feelings are understandable, to know that you understand. I hope you will have an opportunity to express that to him at some point.