A New Phase

[Underdog]

Hi Always!

I saw your request in G's thread, so I'm here. I've been reading sporadically and have kept up with your sitch...

Keep up the good work! You're keeping your wits about you and have some great goals and ideas. Stick with your plan.

I feel that while I was at home, he was moving away from her WITHOUT these symptoms, so now I kick myself for leaving. The last thing I want is for this to be a forced separation/ending...where it's painful, teary and MEMORABLE.

Just remember that you have choices. Don't feel as though there are none...

So maybe I'm just flattering myself in thinking that this is his reaction to my possible leaving him.

Well, first of all, I don't believe you're flattering yourself. However, it's really a cheeseless tunnel to try and play armchair shrink to contemplate all the possible reasons for his angry attitude. Don't give in to the temptation to personalize this. My guess is that you've come this far, but he's still working some of this stuff out.

"Anger is about how I feel, not about what you are doing."

I picked that gem up from listening to a set of CDs on anger a couple years ago and have listened to them again. So if you can reframe all of this in that context, you can understand that he's not comfortable with how he feels.

Back off, give him some time and continue to stick to your game plan.

My only thoughts on dealing with this authentically are to let him know when he's crossed the line in being rude. You can say firmly but not unkindly, "Honey, I know that things are a bit confusing right now, but I didn't deserve to be treated so harshly and I'd appreciate it if you'd address me with a more respectful tone."

I've had to do that myself a time or two (in the early stages of our S) and it was memorable enough for him to change. Even when Mr. W. gets pissy with me now, I often don't have to wait very long for him to call me back and offer an apology for acting like a d!ck.

Take a deep breath, friend, and keep on keeping on. You'll get this figured out with some time, space and healing. I know it seems horribly lengthy, but this process isn't quick or easy.

Heck, I keep thinking I'm all finished with my own, but periodically I get reminders that I'm not all the way there yet. Patience. Kindness. And lots of self affirmation...

Hugs,

Betsey

p.s. Just so you know that authentic communication is always on my own agenda, I had to practice mine last Friday in one doozy of a conversation. I did it through sobs and oddly enough, Mr. W. was extremely compassionate and empathetic. I got home later that afternoon to find a gift from him to me on my counter. A very generous gift, at that. It pays to be authentic (literally and figuratively)!

[always_14]

H is now out of town for 2 weeks...I had a business trip the day before he left, and got the hint that he didn't want to see me before leaving. No worries. I left a small gift for him at home (something I did without expectation and as for a friend) and called to chat on Wed night (the day he was very "angry" and rude) to say goodbye--I was cheery on the phone to deflect any of his potential nastiness--like WCW said, his moods are not my worry.

When I called, he was actually quite nice. Earlier in the day, I was upset b/c I had seen some a red flag charge to the account (of course, being so mistrustful now, everything seems like a red flag). I haven't been asking about charges for months now, but this time, I felt I had to. My $$ that I work for is also in the account, and I do have a right, as long as it's respectful/peaceful. He answered and turned out he was telling the truth.

When I called to say goodbye, he was very pleasant. He came out and apologized for being rude/mean, and said he was with everyone, not just me, and he didn't want me to apologize for anything. I accepted. He did mention that he was frustrated that I questioned him on charges, but felt he deserved it. I agreed, and pointed out that there were MANY things I wanted to question, but didn't, and I had a right to here, and did it calmly and in a non-accusatory manner. I held my tongue, but I thought "gee, you're taking the better part of a year to learn to trust my changes, and you're frustrated that I question 1 charge when you're STILL lying to me?" But, I held back....my time will come. I guess I was impatient with his trust in the beginning too.

All in all, it was a nice converstation. He was tired, but nice. Actually stayed on the phone with me (even when I said I would let him go), we talked about a lot of things in life, values, etc. At one point, he said he "hoped he made me proud" with his work and how others saw him as my "husband" in reference to his work. I was shocked...didn't think he cared about even being my husband at this point. He thanked me for talking his work up with some clients, said it made it easier (so he recognizes the support). I told him that it mattered more that HE was proud of his work. He complained a lot in the conversation that the last 2 weeks (the time of our separation) he's never been in worst shape/health, overworked, eating horrible. I didn't say anything. I've always tried to show him that I've been doing well, and I have.

I emailed him a short, friendly, goodbye note the next day, before I left, didn't call or see him, b/c I got the feeling he didn't want to. No worries....just an email I would give anyone. He actually emailed me, wished me luck, said he would be there in spirit and thanked me for support.

I'm feeling good about my "outreaches of friendly gestures" the last days...don't feel it as pressure or chasing, b/c I make sure I only do things that I would for any dear friend and like for a friend, I have NO expectations. Mainly, I don't want actions from my end to be awkward, aloof, like I can't treat him as a friend b/c I have hard feelings and act in passive/aggressive ways. It's OK if that's the way he feels/acts, I respect that. For me, I would like things to come out as friendly, no matter what his reactions/actions.

Today, when I returned, I saw that I got a voice message (on cell) that he called to see how my event today went (shocker...he hasn't called ME, voluntarily, for ANYTHING in SEVEN months--NO JOKE). He wished me luck in an event tomorrow, said "miss ya" and was a nice, supportive message. I was shocked at how much it meant to me....it really did. But, not reading into it much.

Sorry for snooping...but found that he stopped calling OW from cell days ago, and she did too. Wonder if that ended, if it was painful for him, he misses her, or if they've just found another way to contact if they suspected I knew. Oh well. I think it's ended...esp. since H said that since I got back, he's only spent time with me and one of OW's whiney v-mails confirmed this....sorta sounded like he was letting that end anyway, and he indicated that his upcoming trip would be the final. I didn't ask questions, didn't request...NOTHING....this has to end or continue WITHOUT my hand....something he needs to do of his will, desire. I'm not getting hopeful here....I fully expect this not to have ended.

So, I'm glad that I tried to end things before his trip on a nice note--we'll have no contact for 2 weeks. Nice that he reached out as well, I didn't expect it. At the very least, we're being caring and respectful.

So, for 2 weeks, I'm a single gal!!! I've got some house projects, some busy stuff with work and plans to chill with good friends. Among those tasks, I plan to continue being grounded and bracing myself for us living together again when he returns....the loving detachment (more of a necessity when living at home) while we're still in limbo and possible A.

Overall, I feel great about me. I don't feel it a struggle to make the "changes" in myself or M. I regret so much of my behavior in M, but am willing to give it my best for the remainder of the time we have together....whether that's forever or just this year. I'm not bent on "trying" to save the M, I'm thinking less, the last days, of OW, the A. I miss H like a vacant spot in my life, but I miss the old H, not the person he's been lately. I miss him not desperately, knowing that life will be OK if the vacant spot should be permanent, knowing that the spot will get smaller. I'm filled with more happy memories of our time together, and not just bitterness and blaming. I feel so much more compassion and understanding for H as a friend....I see his faults, vulnerabilities and imperfections without frustration....I love these things about him and want to take care of that in him, as I would for a dear, dear friend.

[always_14]

Journaling.

Having a good and bad time these past few days. Kinda shocked at my own feelings--since I was feeling quite calm and stable during my last post. Now, I'm not fighting the emotions, letting them come out, since this is what our time apart is for....also, healthier.

The good:
* Ravenous appetite. Nice, since 2 people this weekend told me that I looked bad, had lost too much weight. I can't seem to stop being hungry...it's as if all the appetite suppression of stress with H is sucking like a vacuum now that he's gone.
* I LOVE being home without him--I love the space, no walking on eggshells, no pretending, no gearing up to put on a face, no suppression of feelings, no forced conversations, no pretending not to know the lies and swallow them when faced with the lies ("oh really, you worked really late tonight, huh"). No playing dumb.
* I feel relaxed--talking to family and friends that I was too stressed before to do. Enjoying hobbies and getting things in the house DONE. Cranking up the music, enjoying a drink and living MY life. Going out with friends.
* This weekend, had the BEST time with friends. Saturday was one of the happiest days I've had in a LONG time, and I thought of H so little....when I left the door, I was so happy he wasn't here.
* For some reason, my mind and body is so much more relaxed and peaceful about the next 2 weeks, things I want to do, etc.
* I find myself counting days until H is back....wishing that I could extend the time....I'm excited for him though.

Bad things--again, suprised at feeling these things...I guess I'm indulging in the luxury of not pushing negative stimuli/thoughts out of my head and "pushing through" as when H is here...even when we were separated, just knowing he was close by was stressful, I guess.
* Something that has seeped very little these past months, on the post or otherwise--ANGER. I cannot stop seeing red when thinking of H. All I feel is rage. I really, sincerely, HATE him. I know it's a strong word, but I mean it. I want to call him mean names and tell him how pathetic he is, how little integrity he has, I want to yell at him and hurt his feelings. I have these INTENSE feelings of anger, and I'm scared I can't get over that.
* I am slowly thinking/facing the details of A that I pushed out of my mind when I found them these months....ex: what was the receipt for? What was that withdrawal for....I am getting nauseaus thinking of this...sick to my stomach that this is my life. No pretending anymore in my mind, I guess this is me out of denial. Wondering: Was he "in love" with her? Does he miss her now? Does he wonder about her?
* I see other couples and see little things that indicate love and closeness and trust, remember a day I thought I had these things and really don't believe that I can again. How much of that is lost. A lot. I am shocked at how much my brain doesn't even think on the "married mode" anymore....how I don't think of H when making plans or talking to others, how I don't think of us as "us/we" anymore, how I can't imagine life with kids, happily with him. Not in an angry way, just detached and indifferent. I'm also intensely sad to think of good days we had in the past, and realized that this is the part of splitting that would hurt the most...the memories....and they are fading too (or I'm just good at forgetting).
* Losing my compassion. I could muster that easier than I find myself able to these days. Of course, I remember my sins, they hurt and I have regret, but my compassion and understanding that I spewed on my thread and others is out right now. I just see someone I really dislike now.
* I find myself praying that H leaves me, says he is madly in love with OW. Or I find myself praying that one day I wake up and it just feels "right" to leave. I get angry at myself and God at why I can't do that.

I know I sound really negative now, but I'm doing quite well. It's just that I'm scared at WHY I'm doing well. I'm scared that when H is back, that disconnet will be there again. Sure, we had a few nice weekends, but how much of that was forced b/c of what was going on and unspoken. With all this time apart, I'm finding myself realizing that I just don't think I can do that acting stuff again....I regret my actions, I will take all the blame, but it's gonna be hard to go back to patience and blindness.

I guess I'm feeling lost at how to get out of the anger, the confusion, the lies, and rebuilding anything.

I'm venting here b/c I know that next week I'm gonna have to get myself in a good position before H comes back. I realize that this facing my pain and not stuffing it down is good for me, therapeutic....so I'm doing it, here on the boards and myself. This is what H did when I was gone too....faced his pain and his guilt and that he loved me. He said he was miserable when I was gone, hating me, facing his denied pain and also realizing how much he forgot about me that was good.

One thing that gives me hope is something that I read on Sven's thread: that couples that go through hard times, really really hard times, come out much stronger....he said that it was a Dr. that did a real study with stats and everything....what a breath of fresh air. I guess there's a way out of this tunnel....just too dark to see now. Until then, I'll keep clawing the best I can.

I have this pendant around my neck that is a reminder of something important to me during this time: act genuine, but kind. when you feel raw emotions, hate or anger, these are authentic, but temper them with your authentic emotions of love, kindness,b/c this is real too, and mixed with the bad. above all: reach DEEP down inside of you, at the lowest times when you can't do it anymore, for an extra ounce of strength, courage and grace.

Thanks for listening.

[debcb]

Hi always,
I've just been reading some of your thread here, havent gotten totally caught up, but oh my, I can so identify with all the emotions that are hitting you. I find myself struggling with the same stuff. I don't really have any advice to share, but i find it helpful to know I'm not the only one dealing with this stuff.

[Sweet_Heart]

I wear a braclet that my father gave me for my birthday as my anchor. It reminds me that someone loves me. Looks like we are all starting to feel the same. Hoping things will work out but getting strong enough to handle that they might not. One day at a time Ladies!

[WCW]

You must have heard this already, something along the lines of the secret of a good marriage is you don't both fall out of love at the same time. Food for thought.

If you put your good and bad in columns, your bad column is longer. Careful!!! I know it's how you feel, let it out, let it go. Also remember that a negative focus will yield negative results.

I'm finding myself realizing that I just don't think I can do that acting stuff again....I regret my actions, I will take all the blame, but it's gonna be hard to go back to patience and blindness.

I guess I'm feeling lost at how to get out of the anger, the confusion, the lies, and rebuilding anything.

You've got plenty of time before H returns, you will have lots of ups and downs before you see him. Don't go back, go forward. Believe me A14, I know the feelings you are expressing. I've been plenty lost, and have not had the help of open discussion you have had with H. What helped me most was to quit focusing on it so much, get myself busy, find something to smile about, a little a time. I never understood detachment, until a good friend reworded it for me and simply said 'less consumed'. Such a little thing has made a tremendous change for me. I suggest you also get 'less consumed'.

You are a tremendous lady with enthusiasm for life. Concentrate on that!

[always_14]

WCW, SH, deb--thanks for the responses. You have no idea how much reading your response posts mean.

You're right, WCW, a little scared at my anger now. But it's also obvious to me that this has been stored up, pent up and that scares me even more. It's what I did to cope through "detachment", which I got so good at. I kept telling myself, "think about these things later..." and NOW is later, I guess. But, later will come again, when/if H decides to come clean about things and actually live his life with "honor" as he stated he wants to do. Up to him, not me.

This morning, I woke up and asked myself if I was in love with H---No. I do love him, though. I am hurt by him, I feel he is totally different now, I don't believe him, he's in a fog. When he comes out, probably I can be in love again, but not with who he is now.

I do remember though, that most of my feelings now are what he felt in the M as well. Ex: I'm sick of being treated so poorly....so was he. I'm so sick of dealing with someone like they're "game" I have to win..."don't say this, or this will happen...be careful to not do this, or they will explode" and not being authentic or real. He felt the same way with my anger, controlling, criticisms, demands, etc, like walking a minefield and not authentic the way he wanted. I can remember a time when he really wanted authentic, both working at a great M....I was not mature enough to handle that vision then...I'm sad for him.

So, these days while he's gone, I let myself wallow in anger, disgust, pain and hate. Then I also swing to the things I did, and wallow in guilt, pain for H, intense regret and remorse.

Funny, H and I have always thought we go through similar cycles together or close together....as I mentioned, this is exactly what he went through while I was gone....pain and guilt. Hate and love. He indicated he was at a point of wanting to let it go and move past that....I guess I have to get there too, and he has to get all of it out.

The thing that could be deadliest is if either one of us curbs our chances of completely getting out/facing our pain....that should not be a halt in the process...but no more "OK, enough of this phase, get over it..." That was a big mistake we made before. Talk about it, again and again. Soothe the other person.

A few things: I will be lovingly detached when H comes home. I will once again go into "feeling crazy" mode with his lies and "acting as if." I will reach down for my compassion, which, really, is not as hidden as I think. I will try to focus on days when he was a fabulous H. I will focus on all the things in ME that I want different and work on keeping those things changed. I NEED to hear the full story, I NEED a full apology, I NEED an H who doesn't lie anymore, who wants an authentic M, who wants to work on a great M, who wants to put in the effort for that M. I KNOW that I will face much more painful details about the A, most of which I have already imagined in my head--nonetheless, they will still be fresh when I hear them....I have to face my pain and let it go, but not harbor it for life against H. That was then, this is now. I FEAR being second best, the back-up, an obligation, fall-back, a duty, or the easy choice. H told me he fears the same, and always has. It's been a real insecurity of his.

So, it's good to take stock of these things and know that it's what I have to work with for the future. Keep controlling my actions, and see what impact t hey have. You're right WCW, our last big R talk before H left was really rounding the corner, I was shocked at how much H saw in changes and how much he turned around and wanted our M. I had lost belief that my actions mattered.

Until then, I'm having a great time these weeks. Had a friend over last night, just talked and laughed. Today, I'm putting thoughts of H out of mind and enjoying the beautiful days. I want to focus on stepping outside of myself and really seeing ME...who I am and who I want to be.

I hope you do too.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi Always, Checking in on you is such an inspiration for me. I realize that the insecurity and longing and loneliness and need for patience gets to me sometimes. Reading your posts gives me remarkable hope and courage. Today you articulated for me why DBing is worthwhile:

I will reach down for my compassion, which, really, is not as hidden as I think. I will try to focus on days when he was a fabulous H. I will focus on all the things in ME that I want different and work on keeping those things changed. I NEED to hear the full story, I NEED a full apology, I NEED an H who doesn't lie anymore, who wants an authentic M, who wants to work on a great M, who wants to put in the effort for that M. I KNOW that I will face much more painful details about the A, most of which I have already imagined in my head--nonetheless, they will still be fresh when I hear them....I have to face my pain and let it go, but not harbor it for life against H. That was then, this is now. I FEAR being second best, the back-up, an obligation, fall-back, a duty, or the easy choice. H told me he fears the same, and always has.

You are so right about the need to face the pain and get through it to have a really authentic trusting relationship. I am not at all there yet with my H, we are much earlier - I am mostly operating in gentle, compassionate, friendly, and often "act as if" to get through our interactions. Believe it or not, I look forward to a time where my H and I can share our pain and hurt and disappointment - that will be a major step forward towards a new R. Meanwhile, you give me hope! Where I am aligned with you right now is here:

Today, I'm putting thoughts of H out of mind and enjoying the beautiful days. I want to focus on stepping outside of myself and really seeing ME...who I am and who I want to be.

That we will both do, together, today! Thanks for being here, and doing what you're doing, Always.

[always_14]

PL--you're the BEST!!! Really, I posted this morning before I left for work, and by the time I got in, I had another flash of memory from the last few months where I stuffed a memory inside and was in a sour mood. OK, the memory is that once (after I found out about OW and we had the big fight), there was something that H and I were supposed to do, visit a friend for something they needed. I asked H when we should go....he backed out, said he could not, and when I was a little sad, he said that he would appreciate if I could go and "represent us." I said OK...as I HAVE BEEN DOING for OUR ENTIRE M. My big thing with H is that he always backs out of social/couple things and expects me to represent...which is fine, but this time, he was with OW in some way (phone or in person). This morning, it PISSED ME OFF. How dare you set me up for a test for our M (my willingness to represent US without question or complaint...a test of my support) and you were with someone else.

OK, when I read PL's post, it really turned my mood. I had a great, busy day at work. I came to peace that there are a LOT of things that are really unfair and painful. I have to deal with it....just figuring out how. What hurts the most is the contradiction, the testing, the hypocrisy, the lies, the manipulation.

Funny thing is that when I found about OW, I pulled back TOTALLY. I stopped even thinking of us as a couple. I let him go, and he was the one that kept bringing up the "future" with little things (projects, investments, etc).

Loving detachment. Now is a time to vent, I have 10 more days to do that...then back in LD mode. I have to keep faith that I will have my time for pain, needs, talks.

THanks for listening and giving advice...the reality checks, boosts and wisdom are incredible. Please keep them coming!

[WCW]

Vent Vent Vent, open those airways!!!