Amen to that, SH!!! Thanks for the input. I am trying to get better with my reactions, and the biggest motivator for me was our last R talk, where H opened up about so much and commented that it was b/c of my demeanor. He said that he just couldn't talk to me anymore...that hit home. I knew that, but to hear it really made me sad and determined to never make him feel that way. He said that he now felt safe with me. That meant a lot.
I also realize that whenever I hit a point where I feel whether this is worth it, worth trusting, putting my all....I remember H's conversation and the things he said about me and realize what a BIG risk he took in actually sticking around, observing these things and believing them. So, little by little, we both do this for each other.
Ellie is a smart woman, as you are, WCW!!! All that gals and guys on this board are none short on wisdom! I appreciate your input. I'm just so confused now....during this entire process I can't say I've been as confused as I am now...I guess it also has to do with my fear of rejection, etc.
I talked to C last night....she felt the same as Ellie and my BF. That he was pushing, rejecting as a defense mechanism of preparing for me to leave him. Also, she thought that he may be pushing away b/c of feelings of guilt. While I think these are true, and definately a mark of his past behaviors in our R's, it still hurts to be rejected. I emailed him something nice last night and no response. But OW gets 15 txt messages (no calls, but they probably saw each other). So, part of me also wants to think, you're being naive and stupid. He was waiting for the time that you left, and this is what he wanted. He's being rude and pushing away just to not give me mixed signals.
C said that after his return, I should stay at home. Go on as we were before I left. See where things go, but don't say/bring anything up. Let him have the ball in his court. I felt good about this last night.
This morning, as I was driving into work, waking up, I felt a surge of panic come across me. I don't want to live at home with him while this goes on. I liked waking up not wondering what lie I was going to hear, facing that this weirdness is my life, my fake M, not wondering why he's late, who he's called, who he's seeing. It took so much effort to shut myself down to that.
Besides, maybe, like I said, I'm reading this all wrong. Maybe he likes being single, not necessarily with OW. Just being free of me. His rejection is closing the coffin on that. Maybe he's been waiting for the day I was OK with taking the steps to move and get a D, b/c he also has a fear of hurting me/leaving.
Until then, I'm just focusing on me, being happy, stable and sorting through the million other components of my own life.
I'm so confused, but it's not for me to analyze, decipher, code. It's not something that involves me, at this point.
You know by now I am not a fan of living seperate, but everyone does what seems right for themselves. You also know that for me, it seems the more time H and I spend together it seems the closer he gets, maybe he can get a better sense of if I really do accept the person he is at this stage of our M. But that is hard for us, to spend lots of time together, because of our lifestyles. And if I suggest we spend time together, he will run the other direction pretty fast. He says he wants space and distance, I can only respect that, and offer him what he wants, while we still live as roommates.
You email, you call, you reach out, you don't get the response you expect or want. Does that make you feel better? I bet not, so why continue? You can't change what H does, with or without OW, the contact he has with anyone. Don't think about what he might or might not like. Move your focus, to you.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
WCW...thanks. I think I will move back. It felt right before, I felt we made progress and H really turned a corner, and now this. I am focusing on me, but this just has me confused. I'm not reaching out anymore, no more than I would do for a friend. I can handle that, emotionally.
YET, I feel that moving back and not saying anything is like saying "I'm OK with the way you behave.." and maybe like chasing.
YET, I have no idea what stage he's in with OW....maybe the tail end and I'm not being patient.
I will continue to focus on ME....the big confusion now is to stay or leave when he gets back. Like everything else, the answer will become clear at that time.
Funny, the thing I'm scared of now is my loss of emotions for H at times. I have so withdrawn to cope with living with him and his rejection for months that so much of our connection is lost. I don't think of seeing him, hearing from him, even waking up next to him, these last few days. I don't think of him as the first person to tell exciting news....in fact, when we talk, it's hard for me to open up and talk b/c I feel, what's the point, he doesn't care and neither do I. I guess I'm scared of myself drifting away, too. So maybe moving in would be good.
News: Just found out that OW doesn't work here anymore. (H and I work at the same place). I think she stopped working here when I was on vacation. Explain H's sudden decision to "spend more time with me" and "interest" in our M? Is it sincere? Simply falling back on me b/c she's not around (but she is still in town calling/seeing)....I do know that she did leave a VM for H after I got back, upset that she hadn't seen him for days (since I got back) and hoping to spend time with him.
I'm being stubborn, but I don't want to simply be the one he falls back on. I have so many doubts and fears. Too early to think about these things now, since I don't even have a committment yet. Funny, moving out and reading posts of others reminds me of this invisible, subconscious phase that most of us LBS go through....in the process of self-awareness, forgiveness, patience, etc....we also tend to focus on M, our values and ideals of M and renew our sense of it. Though we're forgiving, we're also resolute in what we want in a rebuilt M, what we're not willing to settle for and what we are.
OK, on the whole, I had a great day where I thought little of all this crappy mess. It was such a nice thing! Enjoying work, friends and getting ready for some real goal activities that mean a lot to me.
I have been hanging out on the infidelity board, but have really gained a lot from reading your thread. I am thinking about Harley's recommendation to spend a minimum of 15 hours of dedicated time together each week if you are in a healthy marriage, and even more (30 hours!) if your marriage is damaged or in danger. He says that time together is necessary to rekindle those "in love" feelings, like you had many moons ago when you couldn't wait to be together. I think it would be a really wonderful exercise for you to see if you can maintain those wonderful feelings about yourself while living together and rebuilding your M. And also see if the time spent together can rekindle your love. It is easy to fall out of love, and a lot of that can be caused by spending insufficient time together. You have come this far in your DBing efforts! Don't give up or lose patience now! What did you initially fall in love with when you fell for your H? And who were you then? Plus now you've got more tools, more information, and a much better sense of who you are and who you want to be. Of course you can walk away now, could have all along! But what if you are just on the precipice of falling back in love with each other, and all of the ideas you have about how good it can be to be alone, are just excuses because you are scared of being hurt again? You can still be resolute about what you want in a rebuilt M. But maybe a little more patience, a little more time...
just a thought
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Great advice PL!!! Thanks for posting. I really needed this today. I think our R talk last week turned a corner for H, and he's still really fragile, feeling VERY guilty, etc. You're right, patience, time together. Truthfully, it's the time together, moments of talking, laughing, etc. that turned that corner. BUT, it was also the time apart that we had, that H was able to face his pain, and start remembering the good things about me, and start facing what he had done.
As I mentioned, I moved out mostly for him....giving his "single life" wish a try, and giving him more space to go deeper into facing his feelings. Maybe that's the lack of contact from him now, he's facing negative feelings about me and doesn't want to talk to me. Very possible.
I probably should have stayed....but he seemed so encouraging that I thought it was for him too...all in all, I think this will be a good thing for us. I hope so. I guess one fear is that we had a level of comfort before I left that I fear I have to take time, again, to rebuild.
So, I've decided that when he gets back, I'll stay. Go at it again, the same way I did before I left. We'll see where this goes. I'm willing to be patient, but I also need some give, some evidence, etc.
Funny, he said that this would be good for us, to be friends and date again....but he has never made a call to me, pushed away my offers to date, etc.
Oh well, I'm so tired of analyzing, now I just want to get back on the wagon as I was before.
I tend to regret the decision to leave, but then get frustrated that I'm in this stage of eggshells, where I'm always trying to interpret, decipher, etc. his messages to make the best decision only to wonder if it was the right one, or whether it will blow things apart.
Again, I feel like I'm rambling, but thanks for all the advice. I need to make sure that I put this apart time to good use. Focus on me. A few goals:
1) Try to face the A, and how I feel about it. I need to go back to the M knowing that I will work on forgiving, not harboring ill feelings that come out in fights, etc. for years.
2) Try to work on me. If we reconcile, I want to give my all. Be the best me in a M.
3) Focus on things in H that I want--so that I'm prepared to assess if it's going in a place I want.
4) Focus on things in the M, BETWEEN, us that I want--better communication, honesty, etc.
I'm ready to get back on the train and give it my all, as I did before, when he gets back. This space with our vacations and me moving out kind of interrupted that....which was also good b/c I think through this process, each of us needs down time to think, process, feel, etc--we also got a lot out of it. It's hard for me to believe that the goodness we expressed to each other, the momentum of that, will be deleted with some respectful, peaceful space.
Speaking of time, that was always an issue in our M, by force of job. We never had time together, and had a very stressful life. Now, H has lots of time at work and then avoids coming home and the A. Recently, since I've been back from vacation, he's made an effort to really spend time, being proactive to plan things, none of which I expect or ask for. He even came to me and opened a discussion how work would be getting better in hours for him soon, and felt that I should know. I see that as his effort to make things better.
One thing that I'm trying to do with this time apart is to recall all the positive steps he's made, all his efforts recently. It's sometimes hard to remember those things when you're at ground level.
Whew, OK. No more confusion. Just focusing on my goals with my alone time, and getting back to positive.
Saw/heard from H today. He was very rude, angry, short with me. This is so different from how he was before I left. I am really confused. Not reacting to his emotions, etc., but still, it's clear that he's angry at ME, not just life.
So, I'm thinking....I just read something from Marriage Builders about ending A's, etc. If it's H's plan to end this soon and he's in process, then I wonder if he's in the WITHDRAWAL stage...which apparently is marked by depression, anger, anxiety. I did notice that calls, etc. were less. Maybe that's why he's so angry at me? For losing something dear? He did mention that she was a dear friend, but none of his contact seemed overtly "in love" or recipricative of her emotions. I feel that while I was at home, he was moving away from her WITHOUT these symptoms, so now I kick myself for leaving. The last thing I want is for this to be a forced separation/ending...where it's painful, teary and MEMORABLE.
So maybe I'm just flattering myself in thinking that this is his reaction to my possible leaving him.
What do you all think? Any insight is most helpful. I am so confused.
It helped me to think of it this way - I am not the reason for H's mood swings. Took me a long time to figure that out, pretty simple though. (I plead blond.)
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
