Girlfriend, I don't know. My cynical side wants to say that based on my experience there really are very few men who actually want to be with a woman who has a high sex drive or any sort of assertive sexuality. Of course, most men don't want to be with women who have an actively low drive and completely passive sexuality. IMO they mostly want to be with women whose sexuality is limited to being strongly sexually responsive (except maybe CeMar- I think this is what I like about him).
Of course, I shouldn't pick on men. Women have their own problems. Women mostly want men to be sexually assertive and affectionate but they want men to be sexually assertive and affectionate for the right reasons and in the right way and these reasons and ways vary from woman to woman. For instance, some women would be offended that their H got turned on because she was wearing a new red bra and some women would be delighted. Some women would be delighted that their H was affectionate because the refridgerator was clean and some women would be disgusted.
That's called Biology.
Rats, actually have to go teach a class now. Work is interfering with my BB posting!
Quote: I would be willing to be in the scientific study trying to prove or disprove your point. Just supply me the assertively sexual woman and I'll report the results back in, say, 10 years. That should be enough time for the study.
LOL- How 'bout I set you up with my HD sister. She is about as HD as me but much more sexually assertive and quite a bit more kinky and generally wild. For instance, she broke up with her last boyfriend in part because she didn't get the response she wanted to requests along the lines of "Why don't we do some shots of Jack Daniels, put some Goth/Black Metal on the stereo and have anal sex?". Of course, we are related though I am less wild, more jolly and more nerdy so I might say "Why don't we have a couple beers, put "Tumbling Dice" on the stereo and have a jolly f*ck" or "What if I wanted to play with your cock like the picture in this book. Would that be very naughty?".
What was the point I was trying to make......
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I don't consider myself all that sexually assertive. But I do have the capacity to be fun and more " out there" and I think this scares my H. He knows me so well that he can pick up the subtle shifts in my sexual personality. In once week's time I have been able to move from blah, LD-land to having more deisre, and in that time my H has gone from saying that he needs the sex for our connection to yesterdays " you seem obsessed with sex." If I could detach a minute I could see how ridiculous this is...I don't do anything overt...I just convey the feeling that I am feeling good...and I overwhelm him.
The questionb I am asking myself is why he would want to have sex with someone who is really not into it, and the only thing I can think of is that he feels safer and more in control that way.
Anyway, I am going to do my best to stay at this good feeling space. Not easy for me because stress does make me LD/depressed, and my H's attitude can do the same. Let's see how he handles my good vibes.
Oh, and for any LD women out there, I can say that even after a few days of Wellbutrin I could feel a difference in my libido. I am justifying taking it because I am always fighting off some depression. Even at a low does it's made a difference in my sexuality.
Quote: Oh, and for any LD women out there, I can say that even after a few days of Wellbutrin I could feel a difference in my libido. I am justifying taking it because I am always fighting off some depression. Even at a low does it's made a difference in my sexuality.
I was on Wellbutrin for a brief period and I have to say that it didn't make much difference in my drive that I could tell. However, this might be just because it's hard to tell the difference between getting 800% less than I want and getting 950% less than I want . However, it did make gardening more fun- the colors seemed even brighter than usual and paperwork somewhat less boring.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
IHJ, you don't have to justify taking Wellbutrin. Why did you phrase it that way? You're a grown woman and have the right to take anything you want for any reason you want? Do you know that?
Quote: In once week's time I have been able to move from blah, LD-land to having more deisre, and in that time my H has gone from saying that he needs the sex for our connection to yesterdays " you seem obsessed with sex." If I could detach a minute I could see how ridiculous this is...I don't do anything overt...I just convey the feeling that I am feeling good...and I overwhelm him.
What if we make this ALL 100% TOTALLY about him? What if you experiment with NOT linking his change in sexual mood to anything about you or how you are. You're practically attributing to him the powers of a mind-reader. How does that model make your life easier?
NOTAltDave had a great post about staying in the moment and not predicting his W's response to him in advance.
I saved one of his posts that I found very insightful:
Quote: * Don't predict the future based upon today...don't perceive today based upon the past...live exactly in the moment.
This was the key to the whole thing. Even the other night a part of me was frisky and the act of asking for sex just killed my mood despite her lack-luster disrobing. I started trying to place blame on my W and she said "what would you rather do...bitch and feel bad or focus on the fact that you have a naked woman straddling you right now". These are hard habits to break. Always have faith that your mood can change...it's you choice to have change.
The SSM issue is one that allows you to observe and address everything in the R that *can* be fixed. But the bottom line might be that your spouse simply doesn't dig the sex thing...$hit happens. When I learned to accept it and stopped trying to manipulate her, something interesting happened...I gained a level of self-respect and emotional independence which allowed me to be more like "me" and less like "her". It took a lot of work to do this and I'm still not certain if the average person can simply "flip a switch" to go down this path without a series of dumb moves (like I made). I've learned that her occasional frigidity is no reflection on me or my prowess. Now, I will say that her willingness and responses to my advances *did* change and as a result, the frequency increased.
* Be aware that your high desire to have more sex/attention from your spouse might be coming from something else that you are unaware of.
I was surprised by how much my desire for sex was about relieving the anxiety over my dad dying. I would have never associated the two but now it's obvious that my anxiety was my reaction to grief rather than a normal grieving response.
* The key is that "changing your perceptions changes the reality of things". You control the influx of thoughts that enter your head. Why let things in that make you feel bad? Why feel bad about the things you let in? Whenever you feel the influx of bad vibes, stop, close your eyes, take about 20 very deep breaths while saying "you aren't welcome in my head". You'll be amazed at the results. Again, much of it has to do with living in the moment and not letting old crap in.
* Wholeheartedly defend the validity of your feelings and never allow anyone to make you feel guilty about them. If your feelings aren't in sync with your spouse, that's not your problem...get over it and give them space to get over it. Don't let your spouse manipulate you into believing that you should be a mind-reader. I hate coffee but my mother in law would always offer it to me. I would get angry because she never seemed to remember that I don't like it. Is "anger" the appropriate response when someone offers you something? Why should she be responsible for remembering my tastes? This ties in with evilness of "assumptions" and the desire to have others be "plugged into" you - that's a "fused" concept where you want others to compensate for your own weaknesses. Just as I should always say "no thank you...that was nice of you to ask", your spouse should do the same when you ask for some LM time....and you should keep on asking as if you can't remember anything about his/her past patterns. Learn to confidently accept the rejection.
* Be ready to accept and work with the reality of the situation...whatever it may be. One of my Cs said that my responsibility to my W is to include her in all 4 areas of *my* life...parenting, household, intimacy, and sex. I emphasized "my" because thats what it comes down to...maintaining your individuality while including your partner in these areas.
Again, there's no "system" to making a horny spouse...it will either happen or it won't. You only have control over yourself, your responses, and your perception of the situation. I no longer write about what's wrong with our situation because I *choose* to only focus on what's right. I live in the moment and expect the same from her. I acknowledge that her feelings are no more valid than mine and I expect the same from her. When it's important, I listen to her and repeat back what I think I heard her say and I expect the same from her.
My W was on Lexapro (terrible for the libido and ability to O) and then a cocktail of Lexapro and Wellbutrin to counteract the negative effects of the Lexapro. Now for about a year she's just taken the Wellbutrin. I have to say I don't see any positive libido side-effects that I have noticed.
Gone the carvings and those who left their mark. Gone the kings and queens, now only the rats hold sway.
Balto... I don't think it's just the wellbutrin. I have made a concerted effort to get my libido going again by doing the things I mentioned befoe: reading, taking baths, music, scents, etc. But...there is a definite biologic effect with the wellbutrin ( which I talked about before, sorry if this is TMI). On my own, my orgasmic contractions feel flittery or " watered down"...on the wellbutrin it feels much more intense. I then make a game of trying to see ( through mb) how the contractions feel and count them ( Lil, I remember you did something like this on your own). And Lil, I am not sure why I need to excuse my use of the medicine...maybe I feel it's like using a drug to get a high....not a legitimate use.
Anyhow... That post by NotAtlDave was very...differentiated. I know this is going to sound so fused, but I am certain my H's LD-ness all of a sudden is because he notes a change with me. On Saturday we went to a wedding...the music was quite danceable and I was having a fun time. I noticed H was dragging and getting sort of detached...pretty hard not to attribute it to my sexy-ish mood. But being HD does have its benefits...I began to have this fantasy of wandering off to another room in the temple where there was a lonely, down man who admired how I looked...his wife was not paying attention to him and he kindly but firmly led me to a remote area where we.... oh well, the wellbutrin is working too well I guess.
Quote: And Lil, I am not sure why I need to excuse my use of the medicine...maybe I feel it's like using a drug to get a high....not a legitimate use.
Honey, not only do I think using a drug to get high is legitimate, it may be the ONLY legitimate use of a drug!
Re your fantasy: I remember when the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal was going on, my late H and I were taking a weekly Torah class, and the rabbi made the point (which I disagreed with) that because the sexual activity took place in the Oval Office, the country had a right to know about it. And he used the example that if he had an affair with a congregant and had sex on the bimah (the raised part of the sanctuary where the altar would be in a church), the congregation would have a right to know about it! It DOES paint a picture.
Believe me, if you can figure out how to feel sexy around a man who seems put off when you're sexy, I'm going to ask you to bottle it and ship me a gallon.
It DOES paint a picture.