Am I Creating a SSM Part II

[Stigmata]

So, then, I feel like he must want to see raw emotion from me. And I struggle with this because I think the time has past for that to occur. I don't know if it means anything significant that I struggle with the idea of being able to produce an emotional reaction at this point....maybe I should still be able to react emotionally when we discuss it, but I can't. All that has transpired these last two years have put those emotions and feelings to bed, probably forever. Does that make sense?

YES. Abso-tively Posi-lutely.

-- Heather. I'm really really glad you brought this up as it is something I have been wanting to address/clarify from earlier in your thread; especially in terms of what HP et al referred to as the "fine line" between raw emotion and needy manipulative victimhood.

I took a shot that perhaps you remain fairly stoic after the EA/A from your direct answers to OPs opinions on this web site and, to an much much lesser degree, your martial arts interests among other subtleties I've noticed. Your being down and out for 2 weeks is quite surprising to me on the sheer basis of your H's 2-year grudge response...and your comments that he still hasn't seen signs of remorse from you and he thinks you can do whatever the he!! you want and feel you can get away with it.

From my own experience having been totally duped/blindsided and cheated on I can tell you, combined with my own raw emotions the blood in my veins rapidly approached an near boil...as I thought there was an real unshakeable trust going on between us.

X let out some raw emotion in front of me and it wasn't for 2 weeks...maybe 2 hours. And I can tell you I wanted to see that woman at my feet quivering on the floor in an pool of misery for the betrayal I felt. In fact, seeing as I had a nice healthy dose of self-hatred/lothing bouncing around in my head I became even more angrier at myself for ever giving my heart over to such an worthless....well, I won't continue.

But that was raw rage and passion talking. I eventually calmed down. Her tears were enough for me to stop my freeze-out of her emotionally/physically and I realized after a lot of introspection that I was not blameless in the affair.

I think 2 weeks of your misery is plenty, more than plenty, in fact, if what you say is true. And this goes right to the heart of what I needed to clarify to LFL, HP, and Fran among any others in case of any misunderstanding about what I was saying about displays of emotion. I can't speak for Cobra.

No, I DO NOT believe that one should ever ever "force" him/herself to bring on the tears, grovel, plead et cetera if it is not congruent to how he/she is feeling at that exact time and moment. No no no. Never. That is acting. That is manipulation and I haven't seen an actor or person IRL good enough at that kind of believeability.

When I mentioned if you had shown H raw emotion I was only intending to see if you, in fact, felt these raw feelings but instead chose to bottle them up so as not to appear weak or vulnerable. This was my only intent. I thought it might help me understand how another human being can be so vindictive and hold an 2-year grudge. Believe me, I used to be able to hold an grudge with the best of them but only later did I realize it was out of my self-disgust and determination to punish myself along with the rest of the world who had done me an particular wrong.

I can tell you if x had really felt these raw vulnerable (okay not month-long groveling but close) emotions and chose to instead remain stone-faced...no tears...and wanted to get past it with an sincere apology I would have been left feeling unsatisfied and perhaps followed an similar path as your H along the lines of protracted punishment. WTF? Is that all I get? Fing Sorr-rrry." Middle finger. (thank god it didn't go there to that extent) And, yes, LFL, your sage words on the follow up actions of the cheater is also important. Hmmm, I now leave it to you, SO, to sentence yourself to the appropriate number of hours of community (read: 'Stigmata') service for your crimes.

I can say that to this day, however, I never did get an fully explained reason for the A. Just that she/they got caught up in an "game." I won't even try to lie and say I'm such an big and so self-aware zenmaster "oooh, I see how I caused this whole mess" people will be people so let's just all get along nitwit...to say even now that I don't, from time to time, get wicked resent-filled anger bubbling up to the surface over not having all of the answers.

Big difference? I don't hate myself near as much as I used to. Work in progress. Actually, to recycle my x's exact words for my own benefit:

"I love Stigmata, but I'm not IN LOVE with Stigmata."

See? And I'm even making light of that phrase that so put my heart in an blender last year...(watch it spin round to an beautiful oblivion...)

...sheesh. Anyway, my point is to show you the M side of feelings versus showings after an A.

So let's recap. There is an place and time for raw emotion, crying, and borderline heap on the floor misery; but ONLY if this is how OP is feeling inside. We have to let out whatever emotions we feel, whether personally feeling humiliating an day later or not. Otherwise you are holding back and not being ttrue to your own self and especially not being true to your SO.

And, yes, too much sobbing etc. threatens you wallowing in "woe is me."

I think 2 years has probably well distanced you emotionally, Heather, from going back there. If it comes it will come. Don't try and conjure it up. Personally I think the only way the both of you were to reach this state again is if everything is once again laid out on the table and you both lay yourself open honestly and without self or other-censorship to your raw feelings with kicking, screaming, crying blah blah without fear of what the other will think/judge.

This is why I, as an recovering self-hater, ultimately believe your H has no self-esteeem and hates himself to such an degree that he even hates the rest of the world enough to not want to have any friends or mutual outside interests with friends.

If he's not on an an an antidepressant currently, I would suggest you both consider it ASAP, along with some kind of self-esteem bolstering for H through both counseling, self-help training/reading, and applying him with whatever his love language seems to be from your perspective.

Arg. Speaking of censorship; way I operate. I don't edit and just free-flow stream...

Just work on your boundaries, Heather. Chrome nailed it from your response. You seem to feel the pull of always putting the needs of others before your own. And esp. your H's. Guilty here too. We were/are the martyrs in the martyr-user relationship.

So let's stop the madness shall we?

-Stigmata-