"dagnabbit" tee hee

Good points about his refraining from drinking. You are right, that is to be commended.

So say you're an F who is totally enmeshed with an M. Your whole life is about him it seems and your R. Boom You discover he's had an affair with another F. Your whole view of yourself and your R is demolished since you were as one and there was no way he would ever dump you for another. Total shock.

So H reacts in one of 2 ways.

First way:

The tears start flowing from his eyes. he actually shakes and cries. Pleads for you not to cut him out of your life and apologizes profusely, calling himself stupid blah blah blah, and implores you to try and find int in your heart to forgive him and that he will never do it again.

This is extreme vulnerability (esp. for an manly type M) and sticking a neck on the line to be chopped off. Yes, in other cases it's used for manipulation, BUT IMO that happens primarily in those unhealthy Rs where the M-F resorts to these theatrics after "screwing upp over and over again ad infinitum.

This emotion-filled display of vulnernability is an one-shot deal in an R IMO.(esp. for the less outwardly emotional Ms) You cannot go to this well multiple times as if you do you are not remorseful at all...but rather an controlling manipulative btch/ba$tard.

Second response:

Your cheating H is fairly stoic and apologizes. Not many tears, if any. He asks you for forgiveness followed by an request that you try and get past it. Is truly remorseful but feels showing vulnerability is a sign of weakness and lack of self-respect.

Which response gives you the feeling that H is really hurting inside for what he has done to coincide with the immense internal pain you are feeling in the midst of your enmeshed codependent distorted view of reality?


Well, coming from my own personal experience with a fairly enmeshed M, I can say without a doubt that answer #2 is much more effective. In fact, H followed through in a similar fashion to # 2 when we got back together. Never had tears, never begged, just stated VERY sincerely that he made a horrendous mistake. The words meant something because he showed it through his actions day after day.
I think the groveling approach, #1, is not necessarily wrong, but it certainly does not garner more respect than #2. It's all just words. It's the follow-up actions that count.


rats, out of time