Am I Creating a SSM Part II

[Stigmata]

Hi Heather-

Your comments on feeling depressed and totally frustrated about your sitch had me a bit concerned. Sooo....

I thought I would give my take on some of the comments and insights expressed by yourself and OP as I see them from the partial information I have at my disposal. Don't know if they will help; just another perspective to consider.

Interesting illumination of the "married single" concept phase 3 and how you see this behavior being exhibited by H and how you feel perhaps heatherg should also begin conducting her life in this manner. Again, I am going by what Heather has posted in this forum and do not have the long background of her R history or the Heather-H interactions minutiae from the other thread you have mentioned etc.

While I do see some of the characteristics of this type of "let me be/act in my own bubble and don't bother me with your problems" behavior in H I, in fact, don't see this in perhaps the same manner as you where H has an separate roommate-type sphere of existence that occasionally overlaps Heather's sphere from time to time...during, say, times of connection and angry conflict.

A way of my saying, perhaps that I differ from you in that I do not see H as an true "married single" but rather quite the opposite, an H who is incredibly needy and fused with Heather and vice versa...with near zero differentiation.

As Cobra said, enmeshment and especially considering Heather herself has said she ID'd with a lot of the Schnarch concepts along these lines of unhealthy codependency. The spheres don't occasionally overlap IMO, they are practically indistinguishably fused into each other. This is why, again IMO I feel taking an strong assertive stance with H as various OP have posed will only convince H even more Heather is trying to control him--as evidenced by his constant hyperdefensive lookout for any of her perceived "threats. And I believe an ultimate threat of breaking up the family and leaving will kick in his fear of abandonment full force at the worst possible time. He is still looking for contrition/remorse from her and apparently still hasn't seen it. IMO that would set him off like an bomb.

Likewise, I feel an complete GAL detachment while still living under the same roof is only going to aggravate his paranoia. He has already shut her down from attending an possible career-advancing dinner with 2 or 3 male colleagues and his "affair"-based machinations are only going to be kicked into overdrive the more it looks like she is paying less attention to the family. He will quickly amp up the overprotective bonding with S and D even more (as already shown by his saving the honor of sleeping in his bed with S) and start to entrench himself in the "us verses her" enemy camps even deeper. Thoughts of her sneaking out to rendezvous with other Ms during her hard core GALing will follow and he may even design to "get her back" with an A of his own at this stage in his dysfunction.

As you have described P3, it seems to me an married single wants to have his/her own space bubble without interference from the SO yet with some side benefits thrown in. Personally I see it as H being an incredibly needy partner who prefers his bubble totally immersed with Heather's bubble so they can be one big insular, albeit dysfunctional, family. An insecure, needy hurt H in "married single's" clothing...ie, an facade.

From an heather g post in an exchange with Lust For Life:

For the kids. He says D would turn their lives upside down. Can't say I disagree, but since we're here, we might as well make the most of it. Apparently,
that's where him and I see things differently.

- IMO and total BS from him. I see this as him using the kids as an excuse to cover up his immense fear of abandonment. I think he really loves you, Heather, but still wants to punish you for herting him so deeply. But he doesn't want to lose you or the kids over it. He's not willing to go that far to see your contrition.

Does he love you and how does he show that love?

He says he doesn't know if he loves me. How does he show that love? Hmm. I wouldn't say I feel loved. If he doesn't even know if he loves me, he probably
couldn't give me an answer on how he shows love. I feel cared about sometimes, like when I had the flu a month or so ago and he was good to me. That's
about the highlight of how loved I feel.

- Of course he says this. I'm not surprised. And I'll tell you what tips me off he still loves you, Heather...

He says he doesn't know if he still loves me

- Because he still loves you. Otherwise he would have dropped the "know" and it would have been, either "I don't love you anymore" or "I don't think I love you anymore, Heather, I'm sorry. And I don't want to traumatize the kids." See the difference? Another facade of indifference in his further effort to punish you and try and cover up his deep deep hurt over your betrayal...by trying to emotionally punish you via lording his "giving of his love" over to you. Doesn't think you've earned it yet. But I see his love is still there. Why do I say that? He cannot say "no, I don't love you."

Does he want to change anything about the current R (other than you nagging him, acting crazy etc)?

He won't say. Only that he wants to 'take one day at a time'.

- IMO further evidence of his love. People who say they want to take things one day at a time usually have positive expectations ascribed but want to baby step it. But it also shows his desire to monitor you very closely one day at a time for remorse and you working extra hard to regain his trust again. I believe you said yourself in an earlier thread, Heather, that he's waiting for you to show remorse and, thus far, hasn't seen it yet.

This is why total detachment IMO or full on assertiveness for him to get over it is stepping on an hornet's nest.

Both ways will only show H that you are arrogant enough to think you can just get away with your betrayal and do your own thing (hard core GAL detachment as in the first example) or behaving in your own way aggressively by calling the shots and telling him what to do and what you demand from him (asserting yourself in the second example) .

Personally I think totally reining in your angry responses should be your primary focus. H knows quite well how to push your buttons it seems. You have to use your martial arts mental training and be cognizant of this baiting tactic and use the force of it against H via deflection away from you while keeping an peaceful and positive demeanor. Reacting negatively will only feed him.

So if I were to choose I would, as Cobra stated, err on the side of, say, "loving congenial detachment." Yet an detachment that does not compromise your boundaries. Set them and don't crumble. It's possible to be firm with H without losing your temper. So be very firm with what you will and will not tolerate without showing any anger. If you feel it? Walk away and reframe your thoughts onto something else until it passes. And it is important to not let him disrespect you in this regard. The more you stand up for yourself while staying positive the more H will, in fact, actually respect you. You have let him push you around for quite some time in your R and in a strange but common way he disrespects you for both/either crumbling easily and/or flying off the handle in hurt tit-for-tat anger. Cooly but caringly remind him through your tempered responses that he cannot have all of the power and control over your r to do as he sees fit.

Why does he have such low standards for his own M?

He didn't used to, but then I cheated on him. Now, all bets are off and he is choosing the lesser of two evils for the benefit of his kids. Or so he says.

- Or so he says--exactly; for the kids; for reasons I have already explained.

Ah, so his standards for your M have dropped significantly since the A. Naturally. Boy he must really love you to hang on to his hurt over your A for so long. At least that's one of my tip-offs here. Do you see what I am saying?

And better yet, what are your standards?

My standards are much higher than this. We should be sleeping in the same bed. I am wearing my rings and we are still together two years, post A....he should
be wearing his ring as well. We should be able to talk about issues in our M. We obviously can't resolve every issue we have, but we should be able to
*discuss* every issue we have. If he is so interested in porn, seeing other women naked, you'd think he'd be at least slightly interested in getting some
alone time with ME, away from the kids. My standards are not to be treated like a princess, but to be treated like I matter, like I am an important and
valued person in his life. I expect to be talked to as such.

- No bed. No ring for him. Soooo, no, no talking, alone time together, or cessation of his porn to rub in your face. He can't let go of his resentment. And since I think you said he has no friends and prefers to be alone it has taken over his brain like an virus. There is no detachment or distraction from his thoughts.

the human brain can only focus on one thought at any given moment during the day. when that thought is negative and the subsequent series of thoughts are negative it will have an toxic effect on this person along with all who interact with this person. It seems to me your H is stuck in obsessing over your betrayal and hurting of him so much so that he latches on to this one thought and infinite loop cycles it all day/ night long. IMO he needs to go out by himself with friends. He needs to exercise and eat right if he isn't doing so. He needs to do things to get his mind off of his resentment or it will drive him crazy like cabin fever.

...And at some point he needs to feel comfortable enough to open up with an frank discussion of everyone's lingering feelings over any past transgressions.

I didn't intend for this to be so long. I wanted to address an dynamic I see in your R and I guess I will address it in an subsequent post. I meant only to address that I do not see H as an married single--despite exhibiting traits of such--nor do I think it would be an good idea for you to become an married single yourself as IMO his resentment will stay put and he will think you once again think you can do damned well what you please via leading your own life without him.

Finally, Heather, let me just say this. I don't see you as an F who would collapse to the floor in tears and beg H for forgiveness and pleadings of sorrow after he discovered your A. If my thinking is right on this I think if you had done such with an display of total vulnerability at the figurative feet of your H back then his current attitude would be much different and he would have been satisfied that was the remorseful behavioral display he still seeks from you today.

-Stigmata-

PS. Phase 3 said something about H not fully committing to stop drinking since he drinks the non (miniscule) alcoholic O'Doul's? I disagree. I don't see any problem with that. I think his effort to quit an btch of an addiction like this and switch to non-alcoholic OD is not only admirable but, again, shows that he really loves you, Heather.