Quote: It sounds to me as though you are using it to feel connected to SO and have him meet your emotional needs in some way. It may not be good for you to be having him be a source of your emotional well-being right now. Then again, maybe you are really in a place where you can actively choose to take this risk for your own reasons in your own interest without any expectations...
Mmmmm.......NO. I think it's the opposite, actually. This happens to be one of the things I'm good at detaching with. He isn't the source of my emotional well being..... quite the contrary. It's not like I think to myself, we're having sex today so I can expect XYZ from him tomorrow. No. It's not like that. I actually think HE gets more emotionally connected to me through it. Example - we can be sitting at the kitchen table and try to talk about something uncomfortable and it turns into an argument. Get him in the bedroom, get his clothes off, and afterwards, he can open up and tell me what was bothering him. Is this odd?
And, no - I don't think you're being mean. I do understand what you're saying to me. Please don't think with all this added joking around that I don't listen to what you say. Because I do. Sometimes I need to think about things for a while......then come back to them.
Quote: Re the childcare thing, most fathers work five days a week and still see their kids everyday. I'm glad he is at least seeing them more than once a week, which is the impression I had.
No - he's pretty good about coming here on those days that he doesn't have bar gigs. He DOES seem to spend most of his free time here. It's just his work schedule is NOT normal. When he was living here, he saw them everyday. I know that NOT seeing them daily really bothers him.
Quote: Interesting...I suppose this is what you were getting at when I was posting all that anguish over the undies that my W had bought during the A. I think You told me it COULD be that she was just feeling more sexual in general and could have bought them for that reason, not necessarily for the OM.
It's interesting to see you mention that again because stupid, ignorant me thought women, FOR THE MOST PART, bought those things for us...oops.
See - this is where *I* differ from most (?) other women?? I don't give a crap about lingerie. As a matter of fact......I don't normally wear underwear. Maybe more info than you all needed to know, but it's true.
As for bra's - I've got 38D's - yes, these days it's easier to find sexy things, but for the most part - bra's are a necessary evil for me. Built to last....lol.
When I buy sexy lingerie - I buy it for the man in my life (as in current and past boyfriends.) It doesn't DO anything for me....am I the odd duck??
(1) You might find that when you buy yourself lingerie, you are getting a lot more out of it just for yourself (no, not getting hot and bothered in the changing room) than before.
(2) This thread on pursuing/distancing might be helpful to you. It is in MLC, but it is a problem for pretty much anyone that has a WAS, not just MLCers.
Very Ironic you should post that link....I found it last week and printed it out. I actually find myself saying (to myself) "Not gonna dance, not gonna dance" when I see us heading in the same direction or role as usual.
Had a very odd weekend. Hurt/cut my hand pretty bad yesterday, probably should go to ER, but am typing limply....excuse spelling errors.
Let's see...Thursday...I allowed myself to thik of some of the "bad" things that have gone on....it made me question exactly what I'm doing. X (yes, I guess I can say EX now) SO, is so NOT the person he used to be. I wonder where that man went. I see now that we've gotten into another "comfortable" phase - that needs to change imemdiately. Anyway, I started backing away again - didn't speak much with him; he tried to engage me in some talks, I stopped them. Friday, he emailed me - I sent one back saying blah,blah - have a good day. End of emails to him. He emailed/called/ then tried to IM me...I ignored them. He then emailed me asking if he could come out here and sleep Friday...remember he forgot his suit/trailer for his Saturday wedding...I called him, trying to talk him out of it. The first thing I said was "Thanks for asking before assuming" - that caught him off-guard. I reminded him al the kids were here, 2 of them sick - he said he still wanted to. In the meantime his mother popped in on the way to her sisters for the weekend (2 hours north). When he got here, we all ate, I put the kids down, his mom left. He started watching a show I had recorded and asked me to sit with him and watch it. I said No - I need to nap as I was starting to catch what the kids have. I went in and fell right to sleep. Somewhere in there - he came in and went to sleep. I got up and we all did our thing - he needed to get up around 6:30. He woke up before anyone could wake him and got ready for work. He gave me a kiss as he was leaving and said he would call me later. I told him that was OK, we'd all talk to him tomorrow before he left.
He did text me saying thanks for letting him stay the day and I answered with "no problem - talk to you tomorrow". When I went to bed, I unplugged the phone. He did call during the night, I heard the other phone ring (gotta shut that off too) and let the machine pcikup.
Saturday morning he called and I was a little terse. He said he called, I said I know - he said why didn't I answer, I said I had the phone unplugged. He said "you know I always call to say good nite to you", I said you dont have to do that. He said I just don't want you to think there's anyone here. I said well, things change - I don't need to know anything. You don't have to call...or be in so much touch with me or anything. He said he was on his way to pick up MF that was going to help him with his out of town wedding....3 hour drive away. I told to "just leave me alone" and "I really didn't care anymore". {BTW - I didn't really believe this guy was going with him}. Convo ended.
About an hour later, the phone rang and it was him. I wasn't going to pick up - then figured he would just keep calling & bothering me. Well, turns out, he blew the engine in his truck and needed me to bring him mine. He said to bring the kids, we would all have to go with him...I did not want to do this...I mean, I didn't mind letting him have my truck, but I wasn't going to this thing with the kids. Anyway, I got the tools, hitch, etc, that he needed and me & the girls headed to meet him....an hour away. He called my cell and I reminded him that his mother was at his aunt's at a town that he would have to pass...I told him to call her and see if she could meet us and me/kids would go with her.
The whole hour driving to where he was, my stomach was a knot...I felt it was the moment of truth. If I saw OW with him, I was turning around and leaving him stranded. Screw that. The closer I got, the more tense I got....
I get there...and lo & behold, his MF really was with him. I guess if OW was with him, he would never had called me. LOL. Anyway...I had to use the restroom and as he as now about 2 hours late heading to this wedding, I ran toward the gas station entrance and somehow my hand bounced off the brick facade, leaving a gaping hole between my pinky & ring finger (when I say hole - I mean I can look into it and see my muscle. Yuck.). It also felt like I broke or jammed my knuckle or something.....it didn't really bleed, but my whole hand was shaking...I actually tried to hide it from him, then asked if he got his mom and he said yes, that we would meet her in the town and she would then drive me & girls back home while he headed up to the wedding. He said he got another MF to tow his truck back to our house. During the drive, this guy was talking to me, saying nice to finally meet you NM, I finally get to meet all the family...??? We were also talking about vacations we had gone up near where his wedding was...wierd.
We meet his mom; this is surprising - he grabs me & plants a big kiss on my lips in front of everyone & hugs me, I call you later, balh blah then he heads 2 hours on North up the road...we head South (2 hours) back home.
Later on....I'm watching the race and its about midnite when I hear a truck pull in. the drive...I look outside and it's MF coming to pick up the car trailer to go get SO's truck...I go down and talk to him, not believing how late it was...tell him if he wants to put it off until tomorrow...he said he had to do it now because he to work....I tell him if he needed to stay here, I'd put stuf fout for him on the couch...asked if he talked to SO....he said not since 1-2 in the afternoon...I said me neither...he should be on his way back....getting back into cell range...
After friend left, I called SO...he was about one hour North of where his truck was broken down...I said Friend just left, so you guys should probably be there at the same time....he said OK, but that he was now having problems with MY truck. Jiminy crickets!
About 1 AM, the phone rings and he says "You're not going to believe this"...the alternator & regulator went as he was driving on the interstate....he made it without lights to where his truck was parked (and friend was with tow trailer!!) and instead of towing that, they're towing MY truck home and he'd have to get the other one today. Momma mia. What a mess. He ended up getting here around 3...came in the bedroom to see me, I was up, but in bed, came in sat down next to me,thanked me again and gave me another kiss, then grabbed his car because he still had to bring MF to HIS truck. He then went to his apartment...
Today, when he got here...he took his mom and D7 and they went to get his truck...his mother left...he said he could only stay a short while as he had to meet another wedding client. We talked about the whole mess yesterday, me pushing that *I* need a newer vehicle and he can have mine! He thanked me for helping him again - I said "It's what any friend would do for another friend." He stuttered "What?" and looked at me. He apologized for leaving me without a vehicle for the night, but that he'd be here as early as he could tomorrow with the parts to fix it. Then we'd figure out what to do...re: either a new vehicle or repair his (again). He left and said he'd call later...I said it was ok, he didn't have to...he said "No, I call YOU later." I just looked at him, with I hope, was a "whatever" look. He did call twice - the 1st time I we couldn't really hear anything on his cell; the 2nd I didn't have to talk to him because I was upstairs putting D3 to bed....
Lately, I'm feeling no reason to talk to him...no reason to associate with him...nothing. I helped him out over the weekend...but, I felt bad - more about the people who's wedding he was certainly going to ruin by not getting there....I was quite surprised that he hadn't lied to me about who was going with him to the wedding...that's sad. Because I really didn't believe him. I had kept it to myself, of course. I don't know.....I don't know what's going on with me, all I know is that I/we? need to get out of this comfort zone ?; rut? stagnated limbo-land (loL) somehow...and I'm going to have to be the one to do it.
And now, no deep thoughts for me... My hand is throbbing.
This is why I wonder why I'm bothering with anything. This morning I wake up to hear 'him' talking about how he went to.....drum roll, please, graduation services yesterday morning. What do you do with bald-faced lies? I'm sitting here with a broken truck and he's lying to my face. And he wonders why I don't believe him? I want to tell him I know, but what good does it do?
I read this in another thread, and it's something I've wondered for a while. How does my "acceptance" for lack of a better word, affect our chances? The other poster put it like this "may wonder why I'm still willing to work through things when knowing so much (and think less of me because of it, hurting our chances)".
I'm venting here.... I *KNOW* it's none of my business; all the things I should / shouldn't be doing...but it still stings. At least he didn't say "girlfriend". Rather chose the words close, personal friend. Interesting.
whoa... how do you know he was lying? did he say this to you or on the radio?
No one needs to accept being lied to. You can simply call him on it:
"Really, I'm surprised to hear you say that. My understanding was _______________. So, my impression is that you are lying to me. I respect your choice to keep some things private, but please do just that. I do not need to hear covering lies. I feel used and disvalued when you do lie to me. To be clear, I am NOT OK with it."
The other thing you can do is to ask yourself why this lie is pissing you off so much. Is it because you are still acting as though you are in a committed monogomous R? People lie all the time to others about personal matters. I expect you have even lied to people close to you at times about what is going on with SO.
People in multiple partner dating relationships lie all the time about the other Rs to the other Ps. In a sense, they feel like it isn't any of the other person's business, especially when it has been made clear they aren't in a committed monogomous R. They don't advertise their other dates.
Are you expecting to be the privileged player in this who has the real scoop? Is that why you are angry? You are the one choosing to accept being one of a few (or many, who knows).
Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't. Only you know when the costs outweigh the benefits here. But, as long as you continue to play his game and not set and enforce different boundaries, I'm not sure why you are angry that he is playing his game as well. Maybe you need to step back to an R in which it is OK if someone lies to you about going to graduation. Of course, you might want to let him know why you are withdrawing in a direct way. "I'm going to have to back off from our friendship while you work things out until you can be more honest with me. I'm uncomfortable with the lies and do not feel that I am respecting myself by continuing to tolerate them."
You are keeping so much inside and are so closed to him, I expect you tell him little white lies all the time. Indeed, I know you do. When he asked you what was wrong, you lied and did not tell him the out of town trip was bothering you. You keep your suspicions inside that breed anger and resentment. Even when they turn out to be false, as with MF and the wedding, you remain pissed because you "had to" keep your mouth shut. You didn't have to.
I suggest you try something different -- start expressing yourself. Talk about YOURSELF and YOUR FEELINGS, not him. Quit worrying about how he will react to your authentic self.
"Gee SO, I didn't know it showed. I was feeling some pain because something you said reminded me of your out of town trip. I feel abandoned and lonely when I think of it. And, yuck, I feel jealous and stupid and used because I believe someone else will be with you."
Criminy, if he wonders aloud why you don't believe him, why don't you simply tell him directly. "I know that X is true but you told me not-X."
Anyway, please try to shake yourself out of this victim attitude. You are choosing to maintain in an R with him at a point in time in which he cannot be honest with you. In a way, you may be helping him stay stuck in that place. He is afraid to be honest with you and as long as you tolerate the lies, that is the easier way to go. You can insist on full disclosure of everything, but you are unlikely to get it. You can give him space to keep things private while also refusing to tolerate dishonesty. You can do whatever you want to do. Quit making it about what will get result X from him and make it about what works for you.
OH, and PLEASE get your hand looked at! What are you thinking???
Quote: How does my "acceptance" for lack of a better word, affect our chances? The other poster put it like this "may wonder why I'm still willing to work through things when knowing so much (and think less of me because of it, hurting our chances)".
I wonder this all the time...I think if we are "accepting" and at the same time obviously miserable, then they may think less of us, it shows that we can't do anything to make ourselves happy. But if we are more living in the moments as they happen, and are GAL and seem happy and what not, then it presents a better picture. I have to ask myself, do I think less of myself for accepting the current circumstances? No, I realize that I am eating the cake too, and I need it right now, more than I want to have nothing... I think it sounds like you handled the weekend well, although I am most definately NOT an expert.
Well, I went ahead and said something about what I heard on the air. He vehemently denies he went. I know, I shouldn't have said anything, but it really bothered me. I tried to do it in a nice way - it just got him mad... He then went on to say that him & OW ended it between them 2 weeks ago.
This disclosure had me very uncomfortable; nervous; bewildered? around him all day. That's all I have for now.
I know there's some responses to my earlier post...I'm sick, tired, and not thinking clearly....going to bed early. Will read again in the morning.
NM, to me, that "we ended things 2 weeks ago" would have been a clear invitation to R talk some. THAT is the exact thing it seems like you have not heard before and something that indeed WOULD change the dynamic of your approach to him, i.e. changing the level of the relationship. I know when my W told me something similar and I followed up with "So just to be clear, we are now in a relationship where both of us are going to be open and honest, right?" and she said yes, that to me was my signal to at least TRY to trust a little more and just BE open and honest with her in hopes that she was truly being that way with me. So far, so good I guess.
Maybe there's more to the story, but that seemed like a pretty good thing to me. Am I wrong?
Oh, and remember, what you THINK you know about SO and OW, no matter how much you believe it to be fact, is likely to be at least somewhat wrong.
I'm not saying to just jump right in and trust again but maybe it's time to explore a bit more in that direction and see what happens. At least maybe clarify what he said and expand on it.
NM I am sorry I have been so self absorbed lately in my own pathetic sitch to comment on anyone else, could you (anyone please) look at this and give me some advice, if you have time.
I *KNOW* it's none of my business; all the things I should / shouldn't be doing...but it still stings. At least he didn't say "girlfriend". Rather chose the words close, personal friend. Interesting. 