Well as usual GH, I'm glad to have your take on things....and I'm starting to get real concerned about parallel lives here.. lol
Quote: Again, for me, I KNOW it's not about this but it just feels like OM "did it for her" in terms making her feel better about herself and now that she's "with me" again, she feels worse again. I tell her she looks great, give her specific compliments, validate, everything and still she seems to not give a damn what I think or say.
Precisely...I don't think I could have stated it any better than that. But I guess another concern here is to what degree will she ever be able to address her underlying issues with herself and with our M? I know for my part, I have been very introspective and sought to identify what negative behaviors and emotions I bring to the R....but I wonder if she will ever find it within herself to do the same? Positive changes in oneself can have postive effects on another, but to what degree when the other person really doesn't feel the need to change?
Yes, I know I cannot force anything on her and I cannot tell her how to be happy, etc... it just can be very taxing and quite honestly, sad, to see her like this. She has avoided all of those that she used to be close to for fear that a) she'll be lectured about how she looks and b) likely from guilt. In the end, I have so many people telling me that as her H, I should be doing something to address it.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Rob, I too can relate to where you are. I have been doing all that I can to improve my M/R. I feel that my H has issues that need to be addressed with a professional. He has stated a few times that he would go, but has made no attempt and I can guarantee he was only saying what I wanted to hear. I feel like I can only do so much, my H needs to deal with his deep seated issues and until he does our R will remain stagnant.
Anyway, sorry that I couldn't offer any advice. Just wanted you to know that you are not alone.
Quote: but I wonder if she will ever find it within herself to do the same? Positive changes in oneself can have postive effects on another, but to what degree when the other person really doesn't feel the need to change?
Well, finally something that may be a LITTLE different in our sitch. My W says she knows she needs to work on herself and needs the time and space to do that. The hardest thing for me to do is to sit back and watch her work on things that I don't think need work at all (while ignoring things that DO matter IMHO), or that are making her "worse" not better, i.e. loosing weight when she is already 100 pounds and looks GREAT! Most everyone in our lives knows that any more weight off her would be too much yet SHE thinks she still has a few more pounds to go.
Quote: In the end, I have so many people telling me that as her H, I should be doing something to address it.
Ah yes, and these are the same people who would have probably said to drop the b!tch when you found out about the A...You can't FORCE her to do something. Sure, if you KNOW her health is at risk, you can, and probably should do something but other than that, we can only voice our concern and hope it matters to them.
Quote: My W says she knows she needs to work on herself and needs the time and space to do that. The hardest thing for me to do is to sit back and watch her work on things that I don't think need work at all (while ignoring things that DO matter IMHO),
Well, my W has acknowledged that she has issues to deal with....that is very important. Maybe, like you, I'm focusing on the ones that I think matter and not those that are important to her....
Quote: Sure, if you KNOW her health is at risk, you can, and probably should do something but other than that, we can only voice our concern and hope it matters to them.
That's part of the other issue, I don't KNOW that her healt is truly at risk...obviously she's not getting a proper diet only eating dry cereal and pretzel sticks, but she has maintained her weight below 100. I don't see any other physical manifestations (classic signs of malnutrition) but to look at her is nearly shocking...
So I guess I just answered my own question, as long as she seems physically okay, I shouldn't be overly concerned. I expressed my opinion and that should be the end of it from my end.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Well, Rob, I don't know if you remember awhile back when there was a huge debate here about Frank not taking his W to the hospital because she fainted or something. I saw SUCH venom in that argument on both sides, people who thought he was irresponsible for not taking her, and people who thought it was ok that he didn't. Of course there was more to it, but your sitch reminded me of it and reminded me of how indignant people can get when they think you are not doing all you can do to "help" someone who does not want to be helped.
At some point, I think you may be thinking that to help your W, you may have to endanger your fragile R by doing something extreme like calling a ambulance or involving other people in the situation, or something else that would likely be seen in her eyes as a breach of trust. It's deciding when that risk needs to be taken that is the REAL tricky part. You would never want to put ANYTHING above your w's health, even your marriage but short of imminent, obvious dire health danger, when do you make that call?
Quote: Since the time that things have gone awry in our R, my W has dropped weight to an alarming degree. Today, she is 5 foot 6 inches and weighs a mere 98lbs. She doesn't eat any meals and only snacks on low fat, low calorie items (e.g., pretzel sticks). She is overly concerned with calories and fat intake. Sadly, she still thinks she isn't quite "there" yet in terms of weight, but from what I can gather she is "okay" with where she is at. She refuses to seek help because it likely would require her to take medication which, you guessed it, would likely cause her to gain weight. I know that typically eating disorders are a manifestation of an underlying personality disorder characterized by issues of control and perfection, and that the thing she is going through is the impetus for the weight loss (i.e., the only "thing" she has control of in this world of hers is weight loss...striving for a "perfect" body image that is unattainable).
Oh honey - you are up against a real bear of a problem. Let me share some things with you. I'm a family physician and the mother of a daughter who developed anorexia/bulimia with some OCD and depression components when she was 13. She is now 15 and doing well, but it required a full court press to get her here (she was 5'4" and went down to 90 lbs., btw, so i have a pretty good idea of what your poor wife looks like right now).
First of all - let me say - forget all that psychobabble stuff about her doing this because she wants to control something. Anorexia is a biological disorder, genetically predisposed, closely related to obsessive-compulsive disorder, Tourette's syndrome (which my son has), and/or a family history of clinical depression. Social or psychological factors may trigger the initial diet, but the downward spiral into obsessive behavior that occurs afterwards is a biological problem with the basal ganglia in the brain.
Right now, your wife is not controlling things - the eating disorder is controlling her. She is having repetitive, intrusive thoughts that will not leave her alone, insisting that she cannot eat normally, that she is not worthy, etc. etc. My D was even able to see and be frightened by how gaunt her face and arms were, but the persistent thoughts that she had to have "flat abs" drove her to continue to restrict and purge. It was terrifying for her and for us. And make no mistake, this is a life-threatening illness with a high mortality rate. This is NOT something your wife CHOOSES to do. And it is going to take great strength and perseverance on your part to keep her alive.
It is a lot harder, I know, for a spouse than a parent - you don't have the same kind of leverage over her behavior as we did. Still, I'd like to recommend a few things:
- first, some reading for you. The better you can understand what is really going on in her mind, the better you can deal with her. I recommend The Boy Who Wouldn't Stop Washing by Rappoport - a book about OCD, not ED, but you will recognize the close similarities in the thinking process (plus it sounds like your wife probably has a significant oCD component, from the manner in which she is restricting). Also read The Secret Language of Eating Disorders - while I don't agree with some of her psychological explanations for cause, I think this book gives you an excellent insight into the mental processes of someone with an ED.
I had some success with my daughter by sharing the medical research with her - research about autoantibodies to the basal ganglia being associated with EDs, about rare cases of tumors or aneurysms in the area causing EDs, about twin studies showing that identical twinds have a 70% concordance rate (risk that if one twin has an ED, the other will get one) while fraternal twins have only a 5-9% concordance rate. Even though she was young, she is smart and was eventually able to absorb some of this information, and start to mentally separate herself from the eating disorder. It also took away the shame and guilt, for her to be able to understand the disease process a bit.
Your wife right now is at risk of dying from a heart arrhythmia. She needs to have her potassium levels checked and probably should be hospitalized, although that's obviously difficult to do. What support do you think you can get from her family? How was her ED treated when she was a teen?
Yes, GH, I do remember that incident and ultimately Frank did what he felt was right and stood up for it. I'm kinda in that situation right now. Yes it is a problem, I can see it with my own eyes, and if it should ever begin to manifest itself in more overtly physical ways, I would definitely put the life of my W before our R. Obviously there are long term effects of this. I guess at this point, the only saving grace is that at least she is maintaing a calorie intake and hasn't resorted to other methods of losing weight (e.g. exercising all the time or other "purging" methods). On the surface, she appears to be holding up.
KML, thank you so much for your informative post too. Everything you posted makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, her family history is predisposed to depression and she exhibits the classic symptoms of someone with an OC personality. Its not quite OCD, but more in lines with OCPD or perfectionism (i.e. no repetitive tasks but an obsession with cleanliness, hoarding, etc.)
I know it is not something she chooses to do....she looks at herself and notices that her bones stick out in places they probably shouldn't, but that doesn't stop her from having the opinion that her "butt looks too big in those jeans."
Thank you sooo much for the reading quidance because I think I need to have some insight about what I'm up against. To be truthful, I have no idea what brought her out of the episode when she was a teenager...I remember her telling me that some of her family members were pressuring her parents to have admitted to a facility (and to this day she holds a grudge against those people) but I believe what ultimately did it for her was the fact that her father nearly died of a heart attack. This was significant enough event for her to change.
As for family support, I know that a couple of her sisters have expressed concern for her and have tried to talk to her about it, but mostly they haven't made a real push for anything above and beyond mentioning it to her and then telling me to tell her to "eat a sandwich.". Great stuff. She hasn't seen her parents in nearly 5 months so they don't have a real clue as to what she looks like (although they have heard from other family members about it). The thing is, I don't know how much support they would be...and this is a whole other story in and of itself.
In the end, yes, I am very concerned and will do what I can to protect the life of my W and my D's.
Thanks again for your insight, it is greatly appreciated.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Hi PArob, I urge you to take kml's advice very seriously. My foster daughter was anorexic when she moved in with us at age 15, and it is a really serious, life-threatening disease. She had a choice of working on it with me, or if not hospitalization was the other option. She decided to trust me. I had her in therapy for 3 years, and with a nutritional counselor and on anti-depressants for 6 months. The ED lasted approximately 1 to 1 1/2 years before we got a handle on it, and that is pretty good. The longer your W continues with the ED, the worse it will get. It does not get better on it's own. She will not be able to manage it herself. And she could die. I was shocked when I had the blood work done on my D to find out how close to the danger zone she was. I am also concerned for your daughters, who are looking to your W and to you as role models. Begin the educative process and decide on what steps must be taken. It is not an easy road. Everyone in our household was affected. You did the right thing by beginning to ask for advice and help. Please continue - there are many experts with ED who can help you sort out what to do.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Thank you. One thing I would mention is that our D's, for the most part, don't really see the behaviors....my W and I usually ate dinner separately from the girls (it was easier to eat dinner after the nightly chores where done and we could spend some alone time together) so they haven't seen that aspect of it. They do see her eating the things that she does eat (the cereal and pretzels, etc.) and in their own way, the see it as mommy having a snack. Surely, they pick up on some other things, but I can say one thing the my W stresses with the girls is three squares a day and they follow along.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Not to mention that I think some of the songs or at least one of the songs on his CD is/was on of "their" songs...geez again.
I am glad to hear it's a good show. I have never really been to a concert that mellow before, or at least something other than classical/theatre that was that mellow. It will be a new, emotional experience for me I'm sure.
