I agree at this time Lillie thatthe convesation would fall of deaf ears. I will say that there is some hope in her and always will hold that candle. Sappy, romantic person that I am.
The reason is sometimes she shocks the hell out of me. Tonight she is to be home before a function to see kids before baseball. She is late.
The contolling F4W wanted to call and remind her of the failure to keep her word to the kids, but that is overtaken by the rational side saying she is probably swamped at work.
So she calls as we arrive at field and is sorry. I suggest stopping by on her way home to change, it is on way. She responds with that is a good idea I will be right there.
Small talk and she give timeframe for her to be home. I respond OK, we will be great, do not worry. Then she says GB and gives me a kiss. A kiss not a peck. So again the childish fears read to much into things (F4W smacks himself with frying pan on forehead).
Over time the wounds will heal. Over time she may come back emotionally. Over time I will lessen my fears and grow stronger inside.
Thanks for stopping by Lillie and Cobra. It means a lot in a non-needy, non-OCD way!
F4W (who is going for ice cream with his three sons!)
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
Quote: The contolling F4W wanted to call and remind her of the failure to keep her word to the kids, but that is overtaken by the rational side saying she is probably swamped at work.
Very good, F. Calling and reminding her would have been exactly the wrong thing to do.
You might consider a variation of this tactic for a while: no matter what she does or says, respond lovingly. I don't mean just blow her off and don't let her get to you... I mean respond with love. Not necessarily what you might consider loving actions, like kisses, or stuff that she would regard with suspicion. I mean do what you did above, give her the benefit of the doubt, find some love inside yourself, and act from there. This can be a challenge, to be sure, but it DOES put you firmly in control of your interior landscape, so to speak. When she does something that is designed to push your hot buttons, and you respond with a loving smile and a "that's okay, honey" it will completely knock the wind out of her sails. Sort of a Ghandi-esque completely non-violent approach. As you hover over the chess board, just pour love out on her from inside of you, silently.
A friend of mine was married to a raging alcoholic and her alanon sponsor suggested something interesting-- that my friend pray for her husband, consciously, deliberately, daily. So every morning when they were in bed and her husband was still asleep, she would put her hand on his back and just pour love out on him silently. She never told him she did this. And of course he didn't stop drinking, but somehow by doing this, she put herself more in the driver's seat. She felt less in his power and less controlled by him. My own theory of prayer is that prayer does not change God or change events but it does change the person doing the praying. Just my personal theory.
I've been low carbing for about six months and I would KILL for ice cream... well, not kill, but I could get pretty cranky.
I wont mention the fact that I got a large blizzard. OOPS I did.
AHHHHHH to the PITA remark.
The praying is something I do daily, OK not daily but very often. I find that it does calm my soul, for no other reason that God has a plan, and I cannot change what that plan is. Only make the best of that plan.
The response thing is a good idea and I have been trying to find more ways to be loving. In the truest form, nothing physical, just the inner giving you are mentioning. I believe that this will be more successful with the knowledge of the inner workings and bad habits I have been developing.
I will go on record saying this. The knowledge I am gaining is that which I most likely already knew but could not admit to becuase of the pain I lept bringing to myself.
The key here, as I see it, is not to lower the shield when doing it. By that do not allow rejection or her choice in avoidance or jabs create damge to me. Those are choices she makes and I have the choice to allow them to hurt more than they should or actually forgive her in my heart and mind and know I am better than that. Not aloof or arrogant, just the belief I am more than that and a good man.
Thanks Lillie. Go to bed.
PS my stomach hurts form that sinful ice cream!
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
I threw up that last comment on my way out the office and see now it was too brief and possibly confusing. Sorry about that. What I was thinking at the time was that you anxiety was kicking in again. I don’t blame you one bit since I’ve been through the same thing and it really tears me up. I can’t sleep, I get tired and more anxious…. You know the drill. Anyway, I found that when I am in such stress, my wife usually was too. So if we could have a talk and get to our true feelings, we both got back to even ground and could find some peace.
The problem is that we first had to get through about an hour of defenses, attacks, venting, etc. I then had to really keep focus on how I was going to get my point across to her on how she upset me, how I reacted and upset her, and how neither of us wanted that. All told, we would spend 3-4 hours until we got to an agreement. Sometimes she eve ncame out of this seemingly happy when I could tell we agreed on a single thing. I think she just felt connected by having her say.
So when we had a fight, I would ask to schedule time to talk and be sure there were no other commitments. Then I wouldn’t agree to end the conversation until we reach a truce. Before this, she would get frustrated with us going in circles and walk out. That would only make things worse because now we were not only made about the initial disagreement, but now with each other for not listening to our grievances. Things actually got worse. That’s why I decided to engage in these marathon discussion no matter how long they took.
It also set a pattern that if we could talk, we could become happy again. We both learned that the pain and anger was only a temporary condition and not the end of the marriage. She learned to recognize my commitment to her, even if she didn’t like what I said, and became comfortable enough to agree to disagree and still stay together. It was a behavioral conditioning lesson. It was important to me to relieve my anxiety and fear of abandonment.
I know this is not recommended for most couples, but it worked for us. You need to find your own recipe. You need to give her time to cool down but I also know that staying in a high anxiety state was hell for me. It mad me edgy and angry. I do not think it is good for me to stay that way for too long. At first I needed to give her several days before talking. Later we could shorten the cooling off period. But you emotional state is important and she needs to learn to recognize that.
If you make too many concessions for her comfort, you hand over power and control. Then she will invariably abuse it and you will get angry. You might try to find a happy medium where you have waited as long as you can to talk and she is still not quite ready to talk. That is fair since both are in equal discomfort. But again, you need to find your own formula. Hang in there, you’re doing great!
Cobra: You have been hacking my system and reading my personal journals!
OMG how on the spot in almost every aspect of your sitch is near identical to mine.
The difference is my W will shut down totally. And the reason for that is I dod not validate her view. Simple as that. I think I stated before, I would find flaws in her logic and inconsistancies in her story (it is a part of my job and I am damn good at it). This would lead to her "scanners act" and shut down completely and say it is not worth talking because I never say the right thing to satisfy you. Rebuttal would be then speak the truth and from the heart. Nope woould not go there.
I was raised with a good piece of advice from my father (I believe) and that is never got o bed angry at each other our without resolution or compromise. So I would pursue. Therein lies my mistake. Instead of leaving and agreeing to disagree, I would forge ahead.
With the admission to myself of conrolling behavior both overt and covert, I can see where I pressed to soon and to strong and create another void. Where I should have gone 1 year ago was accept her position of being here and contnued with honest giving within the boundaries of mutual respect for each viewpoint and feelings. I think we would be farther along than now.
For a positive, W called from intermission of her event and to check on S7 who fell trying to jump from cinder bricks to dunk a basketball. She then informed me of hher planned arrival time home without me asking or prying. Big issue for her, but I think she sees after the "betrayal" that informing of her times is a way to lower my anxiety levels. Which in reality tonight I have been very good about dismissing any thoughts of mistrust. A huge step for me.
Cobra, I will say this in honesty, your approach with some posts is like sandpaper on a baby's butt sometimes, but when you disect through the bluntness of your approach, the wisdom and viewponits are often validated. They may not always apply, but they are validated. BTW that is a compliment!
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
Cobra, I will say this in honesty, your approach with some posts is like sandpaper on a baby's butt sometimes, but when you disect through the bluntness of your approach, the wisdom and viewponits are often validated. They may not always apply, but they are validated. BTW that is a compliment!
Thanks, I take it that way! I know I sometimes come across too direct, but I get this thoughts, these ideas that hit me and I’ve got to get them down soon before I loose them. My posts tend to be too long already. Trying to sugar coat things really detracts from what I am trying to focus on and consumes too much of my time, which I already devote waaaaay to much of on this board. Anyway, if I ever offend you, just say so. I don’t mean too.
As for your W, it seems she is trying to send you some positive signals. Try to learn to read them as much as possible. Receiving what she is sending is as important as what you put out. It’s not easy at first and does take practice. We are both still learning.
In some of the reflections I have been doing I see several instances where she was reaching out in a very obscure way to tell me something or to give signals. Some of those positive and some of those negative. It is the old adage, woman talk in hints and code, Men are unable to dechipher them easily. We would rather grunt and scratch (ok maybe not that barbaric, but you get the idea)
It will go where it goes. That is the fact. My focus here at this time is me. Getting a hold of me and rebuilding me. And in my absence from focusing on the situation, she gains the space and breathing room she needs.
Off to bed, and Cobra, get there too my man, holy cow it is what 1 am there?
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
Quote: I would find flaws in her logic and inconsistancies in her story (it is a part of my job and I am damn good at it).
Reassure me that you now know that when talking about feelings, relationship, etc. with your partner that this is the totally wrong approach... not wrong because it's morally wrong or anything, but wrong because it is NOT the path to the place you want to be.
The fact that it is your job and you are damn good at it practically makes you a lethal weapon in the home. If you make a living as a professional boxer, you should never spank the kids or the dog unless you can really exercise self control.
Your goal is to understand her and build a bridge between you two, not to point out where she is wrong. How did pointing out that someone is wrong ever bring them closer? Even if the other person grudgingly admits you are right, the walls go up and stay there. How could they not?
It's okay for her to be wrong. AND for you to be wrong. AND for neither of you to correct the other. Like when you DIDN'T call her to tell her she was shirking her responsibility. That was very good.
Here's something to try, if you're interested in observing your reactions to it: when you're NOT at work, mentally take off the "Logic and Consistency Police" badge. Let grammatical errors go by (my pet peeve, in fact, I have a CATALOGUE of pet peeves ), let people mispronounce things, let them make illogical statements (people IRL and on tv and radio), let them misquote, say stuff that makes no sense.... especially your family. Let them be. The purpose is to observe your own reaction to their errors. Go on a Correction Diet: give it up just for a few days. See how you feel. Let people just goof up and bumble around go off in the wrong direction...
(This is something that is SOOO hard for me, and it is interesting for me to listen to the chatter that arises inside me when I hear someone tell a story completely wrong, or give someone the wrong directions to someplace. It's comical how worked up I can get. But it feels good to be Off Duty.)
quite right. Not making excuses for myself (ok maybe a little ) but I think I did not process or cope well with the whole vents of the year and used that approach to justify my anger and pain.
I compare it to some of the discussion that is going on on another thread with "Am I creating a SSM II". That being that I think for the past several months I wanted validation of the pain I was in, that was caused by her A. I am not sure I wanted groveling (ok maybe a little), but I sure as heck wanted recognition of the level of betrayal and hurt. I am not sure what finally clicked the switch, nor is it important. But now I do see that the pain and hurt is mine to own. It is mine to cope with. I did not create it, but I am the one that has to deal with it, and I have dealt with it very poorly in the past.
The "wake up" call was the events of a few weeks ago and the revelation by the wonderful people on this board that my actions were creating some (if not half) of the current issue that I am facing.
I have stopped that part of the "inquisition" with my wife. I find it is getting easier to do as you have suggested, to just let it go. Deal with my reaction first and foremost.
As of late, that seems to be getting a beter response form her.
Would it help Lillie if I said the blizzard was just awful?
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
), let people mispronounce things, let them make illogical statements (people IRL and on tv and radio), let them misquote, say stuff that makes no sense.... especially your family. Let them be. The purpose is to observe your own reaction to their errors. Go on a Correction Diet: give it up just for a few days. See how you feel. Let people just goof up and bumble around go off in the wrong direction... 
) but I think I did not process or cope well with the whole vents of the year and used that approach to justify my anger and pain. 