F4W: I think you did great. "Controlling your reactivity" is one of the four pillars of differentiation. I find it is one of the hardest for me to deal with, perhaps because I am so vulnerable to criticism and take it so personally. I'm working on it, though.
The aerial view of the chessboard is a good metaphor. I'm going to try to use that.
Quote: Tried the "oh" response, but I forgot to stop and added in a "my god, blah blah blah!"
Yeah, the "oh" is supposed to have a PERIOD right after it! Or you might try saying "oh" and then immediately clapping your hand over your mouth and leaving the room.
Things have been less agitated, but the "cold war" tactics still are at work from her. She is less venomous in her speaking with me and actually we have had a semblence of positive interactions. I would attribute this to the dust settling a bit from last week.
I have been giving wide space and still hovering over the chessboard. Thnaks Lillie!
Following Cobra's good advice and really being concious about my reactions and interactions and checking if they are controlling behaviors. That is helping I believe.
Opening up a can of worms here and willing to listen to viewpoints. As I have stated I am still giving kisses GN and GB to her. The kisses are less than (hmmmmmmmm) enthusiastic. Very tight lipped and no kiss back. Sometimes I iniate sometimes she does not. Last night she is rocking S4 to sleep and makes comment while I am leaving room "I am going to bed after he goes to sleep, so goodnight"
I turn around and said GN and gave her a kiss.
It was just what we have been doing since this thing began. We have not kissed GN and GB but maybe a dozen times in the past year or so.
In thinking about this I see an odd factor. We show that affection when there is a leaving or going to sleep. But we do not show that factor when we have a meeting (Good Morning or Hello from work) That will take soem thinking on.
Should I just stop altogether? UGGG! Should I only reciprocate when she approaches? UGG What if the kiss initiated form her is less than sincere? UGG
Am I reading too much into this again?
Thinking of the approach of just stopping and being. Not jumping into the pit of not being satisfied with her kisses and complaining. Or is my decision of stopping another act of control on my part?
Life would be easier with a FAQ section!
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
In all of this I see a repeat of where we were in our M for several years. No affection or very little. No sex or maybe once a month with begging and pleading. Always the act not enagagment. If I honestly forsake approaching her and settle for what she is offering, without communicating the how it affects me, am I not just giving in and settling for that kind of relationship/marriage that caused my EA before.
I know that Cobra and several others have alluded to time, counseling, etc. and I agree, I am just looking at this from all angles. I certainly do not want one outcome, Divorce. But I can see that as a very viable outcome of this process. And in doing so am preparing mentally fo such outcome but not wagering all my chips on that outcome.
How do I stay above the chessboard, yet try and communicate what I feel. I fully understand that if I do that the outcome may not be what I want and a decision will have to be made. I understand that by doing so this MAY force an outcome I may not desire. I also understand that this is her issue and not mine.
Again, this is thinking long range here. Not tonight or in the near future. One of the things that is an attribute (or fault depending how you view it) is my ability in planning for possible outcomes. I need to be prepared for my course of actions. Not in response to her's necessarily, but rather the next steps to repair. I feel I have a good start on not trying to predict her response and have a counter response ready, that approach has led to me forcing the response I did not desire becuase I was spending to much time on how I would counter it.
I am comfortable right now with where the R is at this point, due to her job and the need for space to think and not have constant pressure. But I certainly do not like the spot or where the relationship is.
Just a bit of venting maybe or brainstorming.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
Why don't you just ask her what she wants from you, in specific points, figure out how long it will take you to honestly and wholeheartedly make that transformation, and how long it will take her to beleive what she sees and regain some level of trust?
Let's say in the future, I derive enough courage to engage in that conversation (again). Is this not more of the same? Pressuring her to respond. Forcing the issue again into the light?
Lord knows my German side of me loves a good fight or debate, but that is not the case here. Again dealing with issues of fear and abandonement.
If I may presume here, You are stating by offering that opportunity to express what she wants in me, and me either agreeing, compromising or living with the consequences of not changing, I am in turn creating a start to her listening to me and my needs without saying them?
BTW, not being a smart azz, I would lay good odds on her response being along the lines of, I do not need anything from you or you to change, if I had to pick one thing it would be for you to stop having this discussion with me. Her standard reply to line of inquiry.
To this I am would reply "oh" leave the room and deal with that reality.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
Quote: Why don't you just ask her what she wants from you, in specific points, figure out how long it will take you to honestly and wholeheartedly make that transformation, and how long it will take her to beleive what she sees and regain some level of trust?
My current thinking is that with argumentative, contentious, PITA types, it's best not to ask questions. It's best to make statements and then let them respond or not.
Ultimately, of course, for real EC to occur, there must be mutual vulnerability, but some R's on here are pretty far from that.
F4W asked, How do I communicate and still stay above the chessboard?
By making statments.
Well, you say, how do I know she hears me and understands?
Alas, if she doesn't give you a clear response that indicates that she hears you and understands, in a nutshell, you don't.
IF both of you WANT to communicate then you can use the active listening technique that I think cobra describes somewhere when you say something and she repeats back what she heard, and the convo doesn't proceed until you both are clear. You do this step by step.
If she's not willing to hear you, communication is not possible. You can't make her get the message.
LOL!
