Ok following until last line. That one threw me. Not that it is not possible, but I have been at this for over a year already. I understand that I need to add time to it when I backslide, but Geez!
I understand more now that it is anxiety. It is my fear of abandonment. Without a doubt those are promary drivers here. Others are children, finances, perspective by peers, and personal failure. Pretty heavy stuff.
I have always took control in crisis situations and also in non-crisis situations. Yes since I was a kid. Very intelligent (I guess) and athletic. Moved to private school in 1st grade b/c public education was not doing it and always competed in athletics at higher levels than my age due to ability.
This is the rub. A fixer and I cannot fix this. Damn frustrating. I can fix it damn it I know I can, but it is not mine to fix.
Have spent some time today looking for IC for myself. For nothing else to gain control over my anxiety. An analogy of the way I feel right now is a lab right injected with caffiene and plopped in the maze. Running around going crazy. Then at home I try and put it in perspective.
Our saving grace right now is her busy time of year and she will be out of house for awhile over the next 2 weeks.
My sharing cannot occur until after then. To do so would be seen as highly inconsiderate of her stress and job at this time to put my needs on the front burner.
1 Year, wow, wow!
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
I’ve been going to counseling with my wife for almost 3 years now. How much progress you make depends on your self awareness. Right now you have leap-frogged me by about 2 years, just from the knowledge you have gain this week!! You can get to a “comfortable” place in your marriage pretty quick, but that will only be enough to keep the lid from blowing off while you two slog through the harder issues. Do you really think she can let go of her fears (after acknowledging they exist, then recognizing them), her need to control, her anger and resentment any faster than that? Get real.
No, that is the factor I seem to not take iton account. That there are two of us here trying to find some stable ground in this quicksand. Until we both can establish that ground, each will be struggling to save themselves. Right now I feel as if I am trying to save her without being on solid ground and thus are putting both of us in peril.
I am not sure about leapfrogging you.
On her issues and fears. I am racking my mind. I cannot honestly say there has been a time where she has confided in me those. She is very stong willed. Very much the "I am strong and do not need support and can handle it". Me, I am " W, (out falls my guts for inspection)"
My reaction to the year comment is the fixer and my anxiety and wondering if I have the courage to do it. Weigh the consequences and we are back to taking that leap of faith.
You are right about one thing though, It has to start with me.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
I think Chrissy mentioned that she will file for D, and in her state she must be separated fro 1 year before the D is finalized. How long do you have to wait where you live? Add to that all the time in lawyer negotiations, waiting for a court date…. What is one year?
Regarding your wife, how and why would she ever try to save herself if you keep doing it for her? As long as you do this to keep her “comfortable” what incentive does she have to change? Aren’t you enabling her negative behavior?
I also wouldn’t necessarily assume she is so strong. My impression is that a lot of people who put up such a hard, confident exterior are actually some of the weakest people around. They know this too, but work hard to cover it up. Once you crack the exterior, they crumble. Also, is she really that strong willed or are you weaker than you thought? To someone else she may seem like a pushover. To you she is a pillar of stone. Only the RELATIVE difference between you two matters, not the absolute levels of “strength.” If she is a 5 on a scale of 1-10 and you are a 2, she would seem intimidating. But to someone who is an 8, she is nothing. Make yourself into that 8.
Stop worrying about her. She needs to take care of herself. If you can get your center, she will take her lead from you (though she won’t show or acknowledge it). Just calmly do what you need to do in piecing YOURSELF together, not the marriage. Let her take responsibility for the marriage.
WA state divorce is BS (IMHO) it allows for easy termination.
90 days from time served papers to agree to the D or to say there is hope. The sign, and it is done in 90 days. Contest and it goes before the judge who will order counseling and then at the end of that if it is not workable the court proceedings begin.
Spot on again 3 months to 1 year.
DO YOU EVER HATE BEING RIGHT ALL THE TIME??!!
You can also get a legal seperation where the courts just divide the property up and cutody, WA is a community property state.
That takes 3 months also but D happens after that with only one party filing after 6 onths of seperation (I think).
Agreed I cannot save her, but as you know Cobra that is the hardest part, not saving. Seeing them swirl in this toilet when all they have to do is reach up. But I understand by doing so they never face their issues and are doomed to repeat.
Good analogy on her strength, She was never as jaded (?) towards me in the past, but became resentful of the early years of marriage not being at home because of my job, add kids, increase expenses, you name it.
I have seen my W cry 5 times in our marriage (besides being sick and in pain) 1 when GM died, 1 when GF died, 3 times since this has begun. On sick, a telling tale for my wife is she seeks extreme levels of comfort when she is ill. Positive sign she is not a pillar of stone, maybe.
In the past I have backed down from her because of my fear of abandonment, lately I do not. When she first stated D 1 year ago I crumbled, second time I crumbled, 3rd time I crumbled, this time I did not, although I have cracked a bit, but still not crumbling. She knows how to get my buttons. But where I am now and what is becoming a revelation to me is "go ahead push em, I am not responding to it and you may very well not like the consequences if you continue that logic"
As I said, I am set on fixing me right now. I need to fiugre our and further cope with my issues first.
Lightning Bolt today, I have stated in the past my physical attraction and EC is the main drive here. I have come to realize that those things may be present but it IS the fear of abandonment and loss that escalates the anxiety.
She called today to share a D of a mutual friend had just passed from an car accident a few months back. I did not take the call. Litened to the message and immediately called back. She was on phone. I left message to call when she is free with Assistant. She calls back and I am out. We finally connect. Actually thought I was ok in this (though I sense Cobra has his scapel out). I wasempathetic and asked how she was doing withit. She said fine. I said that was good she was holding up. She wanted to go into do not worry about me mode and I changed subject to tonight and informed her my truck was done and would be leaving early. Quite anxious on the phone but thought why? I cannot control or relieve her grief. I can only be empathetic until she wants to share more.
Thanks Cobra.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
So in this mess that I have contributed to creating, the distance that she is creating is amazing. Cordial and upbeat with everyone but me. I am not over-reacting and find that the anxiety is not as great when I repeat to myself, this is not my issue that is creating this. I am willing to do what it takes to work and repair this (if possible) you are the one that needs to reach the same conclusion. I am conscious of not letting that thought process be non-verbally communicated at this point. I would not classify it as being aloof or arrogant as much as I am not going to take a step backwards and stoop to another meaningless power struggle and argument where there is no direction at dealing with the root issues.
A bit of an update and input on action or reaction would be welcome.
Interaction by me has been very normal, upbeat and nice. One-word responses with no inflection (very Sgt. Friday, "just the facts ma'am”). I do not bite nor acknowledge this childish tactic. In reality it is like talking with my S10 when he is in a snit! So she gets up and I say GM how are you today. One-word answer "fine". Nothing else. I say "You sure, you seem a bit on edge". "I am in a hurry" is her response. I respond, "yes, we are running a bit late" Do the do for the morning to start. I say GB and give her a GB kiss. She is closed lipped and no kiss back. I ignore. She gets that frustrated pout on her face and body. I leave with "Have a great day" very upbeat and sincere. Call for 3rd day in a row on cell reminding me of my pick up duties for children. I thank her for the reminder.
So, in this action I am not sure GB/GN kisses are doing good or harm. My thoughts are I am going to act as we are fine, issues that she has are hers to figure out. I have not initiated any other physical contact with her and we are approaching 2 weeks without sex (something we have not done since the fall out 1 year ago). I have made the choice that I will not initiate this activity for awhile, upwards of 3 weeks, the end of her busy time at work. Even then may not until she does and then I may know that it is safe to pursue that activity with her.
Am I on the right path here, or am I placating her. I am a bit unsure where my "normal" behavior is construed as controlling and more pursuit, or just am I conveying the message I want, I am still here and willing to stay and wait until you are ready to discuss this issue.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
Quote: Am I on the right path here, or am I placating her. I am a bit unsure where my "normal" behavior is construed as controlling and more pursuit, or just am I conveying the message I want, I am still here and willing to stay and wait until you are ready to discuss this issue.
IMHO you are doing exactly the right thing. Think of it: what exactly is "placating"? To me, what you are doing is right because you are not taking the bait. You are breaking a pattern. You are taking the moral high ground (there is usually LOTS of room up there).
For example, when she calls you every day to remind you of something you already know and have already agreed to (the children) and you thank her, I think that is perfect. How many more times do you think she will do it if you keep thanking her? I say the payoff for her will rapidly disappear. BUT if you respond with annoyance ("Why in the he11 do you keep calling me about that? I've told you I would take care of it! Get off my back!), how many more times do you think she will call you? I say she will probably do it forever, because she can't stop or that will give you the satisfaction of knowing that you "got" to her. And on it goes. You must leave the field for the battle to stop.
Your statement that you are not sure what your normal behavior should be is a red flag to me. This should be a priority for you right now: figuring out what you want and what you want to do instead of giving in to the impulse to have a knee-jerk reaction to her. Another reason why leaving the field is good practice. When you do that, you KNOW you are acting from your OWN will and not from hers. You're acting from your own desire and for your own good. Every time you do that you become stronger and more in control of your own destiny, instead of being the fish on the end of the line that she jerks around.
I read an interesting analogy the other day, and I'll try it out by applying it to your sitch: you and your W are like pieces on a chess board. You move, she blocks, you take one of her pieces, she takes one of yours, back and forth-- the difference is, there is no clear winner, and the game seems interminable.
What if you decided that instead of being one of the colors, YOU became the chess board. Just let what happens on the board itself be her at war with herself. You stay out of the game as an observer. In fact her war IS with herself. By gearing your actions and reactions to her, you are down there on the battlefield and getting nowhere.
So far from "placating" her, I belive that when you stay out of the mundane conflicts (and the mundane attempts to engage her and "cheer her up") you leave her alone on the board to move the pieces around endlessly. And THAT breaks the familiar pattern, which has to be the precursor to real change. Stop playing HER game.
One reason I am here is because by lurking here for months I have seen the wisdoms of many of you. That is why I let Cobra in the inner sanctum and am free to share everything here.
Not that I am a SSM "groupie" but I see the logic and workable solutions not always presented in the other forums.
As to the chess board I agree, and am trying to do that right now. As Cobra and I have discusses, my letting go creates more fear and anxiety in me because I am not affecting any change. In reality I am affecting more change by doing nothing. By nothing I mean instigating or reacting to the shots she is firing.
What of the impression that I am being aloof,arrogant, or giving up. I fear that also. That is why I am trying to carry on in a loving caring manner at home and carry on a sense of normal ineteractions.
I am trying to give the message, I am still here, I have finally heard you and trying to give you that without saying it or looking like I am reacting in a manner to gain her favor.
Here is my fear, at the end of the 3 weeks of her busy time it will be over. What I am trying to do is not fear that. That it is the decision that she might make. But again, as Cobra will agree with, that may be my fear of abandonement speaking.
Trying to find the best course through the rocks.
F4W
Through honest giving of my love I will recieve 10 fold in return.
Just because a person does not love you in the way you want, does not mean they do not love you!
I agree that the group that has wandered into this forum is exceptionally bright and articulate. There's a lot of smarts here!
You've raised a subtle but interesting point (and maybe you and cobra have already touched on this): when you change, it causes YOU anxiety. It's not just that we have a hard time getting our partners to do something different-- it also raises all of our fears of abandonment, being demanding (that's my personal demon), thinking we're full of ourselves, etc.
You wrote
Quote: I am trying to give the message, I am still here, I have finally heard you and trying to give you that without saying it or looking like I am reacting in a manner to gain her favor.
I think you can actually make this statement: "I'm still here for you and I hear you." Then however she replies to that, just agree or do whatever you need to do to avoid an argument. Or just say it when you're on your way out or something.
Do you see how you're dancing around her? Watching her every move so you can decide what your next move should be? I am the world's best at this! And it is a hard habit to break. I still have the convos in my head about my bf's behavior-- he pushes more of my hot buttons than anyone else ever has. Now I try to keep the convos just inside my own head and don't get into it with him. Most of this stuff doesn't matter enough to argue about-- but the feeling that you want to argue or might get into a fight over it tells YOU where your wounds and tender spots are.
Quote: Here is my fear, at the end of the 3 weeks of her busy time it will be over.
You mean at the end of three weeks, she might walk out? If she really decides to walk out, there isn't a whole lot you can do. There was a poster "csw" on here who successfully brought his W back. Unfortunately her staying or going may not have a whole lot to do with your behavior. In any case, all you can do is be you. Not to make light of it, but you have to face that possibility that she may leave and you may not be able to change her mind.
