Motivated by Happy Giant's Post

[Fighting4Wife]

OK, I am taking a plunge here thanks to Happy Giant’s post. Been posting and growing in newcomers for over one year, and been lurking here for almost as long. Been really trying to square away other issues in my M before trying and tackle this one.

Brief synopsis:
Me 39
W 38
3 sons (10, 7, 4)

Bomb in Feb 05 after my internet relationship, which I admitted and repented for and later I confront her on her EA with OM from a weekend getaway to our honeymoon hotel

2nd Bomb in March (after I confront her again after ferreting out her affair)

Catch her in bed with OM 4/16/05

We have been working on us since with many ups and downs

Here is my quandary. Although things are tremendously better in our relationship, it is lacking in the sex arena. I am most definitely a HD man. She used to be HD but is now self proclaimed LD. For many years stated she hated sex. Well I blew that out of the water the night I caught her. Through out this year we ML (or rather I ML and she does her duty) more than we ever have, but she is distant, non responsive, and acts as if it is the ultimate sacrifice. She has stated that she will do it whenever but will not be into it. She is comfortable with 1 in a week if she is in the mood. But it is all “business” typical line is “Kids are asleep now, lets go do this.” That gets the motor running for me. Then it is lay there and I do a Herculean effort to please and arouse and stimulate, all which she says is un-needed and she really does not enjoy. There is no foreplay directed at me, a quick grab and tug to get things up and that is it. I have requested more, and get anger and refusals. No oral from her what so ever, out of the question (although it used to be a regular thing). No devices, massages, touching, showers or even kisses (if I get 3 kisses during a session that is amazing). It is always “hurry up and cum, I want to go to sleep”. I have tried everything I can think of, BB poster’s comments, and books (oh God the books!!!)

I am frustrated by all means. I see and acknowledge that what we have overcome is wonderful. That our relationship is getting better, but still feel like I am being neglected on a emotional level with my W. I love her and my sons tremendously, otherwise I would have made other choices by now. How do I get the point across that ML is more than the physical release to me. It is about me pleasing her and her pleasing me. A mutual connection. Not fairy tale or perfection, I am open to quickies, nooners, long sessions, short sessions, romance, dirty, whatever it takes. Just want to FEEL that I am desired and attractive.

I read Happy Giants post and it is sooooooo close to my W that it is scary! How do I start the communication that I need more, not frequency but intensity (?).

Thanks for listening. I know that this is a very tight knit group. Maybe someone has the time to respond
F4W

[sat567]

I have tried everything I can think of, BB poster’s comments, and books (oh God the books!!!)

One thing is noteworthy by its absence: counseling. Just like with Happy Giant, this is likely not a nut you can crack by yourself.

If you're a longtime lurker, then you know that it is possible you might not get many responses during the weekend. Just wanted to let you know that.

It sounds like you've been through the wringer...found them in bed together. Geeze...can't think of much else worse than that.

I'm sure others will chime in.

Hairdog

[Fighting4Wife]

Hairdog,

Thanks for pointing that out.

We went to MC in March prior to discovery and amidst her EA/PA. It was not helpful, basically MC told W that she would be fine D and on her own but had a H who loved her. Told me that I needed to allow W to explore having her space. I stopped going as did she. For different reasons.

We have broached it but she is adament it is not needed and it is fine. She approaches things from she needs to make all the effort, be "on" for me, make me happy. We all know where that will lead to with resentment and all.

I know posting before weekend is not optimal, but I have posted and deleted many times over the months, knowing I (and the relationship) was not ready, now I am.

Thanks Hairdog!

F4W

[honeypot]

Why not tell her to knock it off?

I mean, really, when she is saying "hurry up and cum so I can go to sleep" why not tell her how totally offensive that is? Why do you put up with it?

I know this may not sound like For Real advice, but I'm serious. I would refuse to put up with sexually hateful behavior, while at the same time doing all you can to make yourself attractive to her and fix any glaring R problems.

[Fighting4Wife]

Thanks Honeypot.

To expand a bit. Not trying to glorify myself at all. Most time I need a length of time to climax. Not always but a better portion of the time. Last time we ML it was that way. All she had was disgust in her face and body reactions after the first 5 minutes, that I could not complete the action sooner. I did tell her to stop. That it was not helpful, and in all my days I have never had someone complain about the length of the session being too long! She replied she was becoming dry and it was painful. So I stopped and was left unfulfilled. We then went down the road of me feeling inadquate through her actions because I did not finsh soon enough. After I asked if she would be open to a personal lubricant to help in that issue the next time this happens. That drew her ire. That I was saying something was wrong. I said well it seems like it is not you but your body. Well that was received well, NOT

The next time she did not make those statements. She did say prior that she would like to not have a marathon session because she was tired. I told her thank you for respecting me and phrasing it a different way.

I hope not to offend anyone with being so open. I know many befoe me did so and were "trolls" about their agenda. I truly am just at a loss how to tactfully approach all this.

Yes there is still fear in my heart that I may push too hard and ruin what we have accomplished, but on the other hand I am underminding what we have done by not communicating my issues and keeping them bottled up and festering. I beleive there is a great deal of personal issues with her and her guilt that are contributing to this. Where and how do I navigate those issues. As Hairdog said, this nut may be too great for me to crack alone.

Stuck between two knives I guess.

Thanks again honey pot. I agree with that approach. I also agree it is disrespectful to me and my feelings.

[Chrissy]

Why did your wife opt to end the affair over just getting a divorce. In other words did she stay with you for all the right reasons or all the wrong reasons.

What part of your relationship has improved? And how?

I am sorry in advance but I am going to be real blunt here.

If your wife was having a relationship of a sexual nature with someone else then it is not that she is not sexual. She just does not share this side of herself with you. Do you know why?

I can see a real LD person having a EA but not a PA. Which means something in your relationship triggers her LDness. Have you come any where near figuring out what that might be?

I am by all means a HD person with quirks forced into the life of a LD do to relationship issues. I can see someone like myself having a EA that overflows into a PA if my emotional needs were being fufilled to the point it released my more HD nature. But why would someone who is LD does not like sex walk into a situation of not only having one but two peoples needs to fufill sexually.

I am with HD I don't think this is one you will be able to fix without some outside help that can call BS in a polite way.

[Fighting4Wife]

Ahaa the subltle frying pan approach eh? Not that I am complaining. I guess part of me is posting trying to find the answers that I most likely have come across.

Improvements:
We communicate more
We are more civil and loving to each other
We talk more
We spend more time doing things as a family
I am starting to believe that she is here and not looking to bolt
We are more honest
We do ML more frequently (act not passion)
She is more relaxed in most situations


I have contended from the start that she was forced into ending the affair for fear, guilt, appearences. I have definiely shot of enough toes in the past years with mistakes. But I have also made progress.

As to her when asked that question she gave the standard answers. I do not want a divorce, you are the father of our kids, and eventually ILY.

I agree with the statement that something in our relationship shuts her down. I have changed a lot about me but to no avail. I believe the thrill of the affair helped. I will add that I was the OM for her in a previous relationship. While she was still living with her old BF they were not having sex. When we started dating, she wanted to have sex with me and I refused because she was involved. We moved in together a short time later. She also has the pattern in a previous relationship prior to that one. So that is her excape mechanism. Find a new one then leave the old.

Even with all this knowledge I have forgiven her in my heart and with God and love her. To me Divorce is not an option, and plan on reiterating that with her. We need to fix this, because I am not prepared to spend the rest of my marriage like this.

I'm in favor of a good counselor. Our location is not conducive to high quality counselors. So much research needs to be done and I have to get her to willingly want to go.

I can see someone like myself having a EA that overflows into a PA if my emotional needs were being fufilled to the point it released my more HD nature. But why would someone who is LD does not like sex walk into a situation of not only having one but two peoples needs to fufill sexually.

I agree I agree I agree. This is what led me to do what I did. But I stopped short of an actual PA becuase of my desire to save my marriage. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the oW called my wife with a pack of lies saying we had been together.

Thnaks Crissy. Ouch but thanks!

F4W

[sat567]

I'd still focus on finding a GOOD MC. Sounds like your first one wasn't, so it may take some work, both in finding one, and in convincing your W to go. Maybe even using the counselors on this website. I've heard lots of good things about them.

Also, HP has a point: don't tolerate the sexually hateful behavior.

Hairdog

[Cobra]

Fighting4Wife,

Whoa!!!

I will add that I was the OM for her in a previous relationship. While she was still living with her old BF they were not having sex. When we started dating, she wanted to have sex with me and I refused because she was involved. We moved in together a short time later. She also has the pattern in a previous relationship prior to that one. So that is her excape mechanism. Find a new one then leave the old.

First I would say…. Why was it you married her???? …. Knowing this about her past??? … You were at least the THIRD in line (there may have been more). Why did YOU knowingly choose to step into this frying pan??? Don’t tell me its love either. I know you love her, but that is not what attracted you to her. What is it in your past that made such a dysfunctional person attractive to you? I think this is where you must start. Find out what need she filled for you and how to heal that need as best you can. Then start to look and how you impact the marriage. Once you understand this, the mirror image of you will be your wife and you can start to see what her needs are. Only then can you address fixing the marriage.

[Fighting4Wife]

HD,

I agree with the counseling and would love to go, she is not ready as you may be able to tell from my latest "new thread":

Dreams Shattered...Lives Erased

I am trying to not tolerate the sexual hateful behavior, and have made strides in this area. I still backslide but I believe one of the reasons for her sudden "change" of heart is because I was very upfront with her about that specific point and stated I will not accept being treated that way. She would not tolerate it and nor will I.

Thanks again HD

Cobra,

This may be a mute point with the latest "revelation" in my marriage (see above link)

Very good questions. To answer you the first part of of why?

The relationship started as a blind date and that she was unhappy in her current ralationship with live in BF, which I have come to learn through sources they never had sex. She had recently moved back to town (hometown) from college and started a job where he worked at and was optimal for place to live and companionship. The other one I referred to was in her Frosh year in college 5-6 years prior. I learned of the through my BIL who was divorced by my W's sister (I can hear the Ah Ha's already).

I offered her a place to stay and the relationship was on and off for over a year as we sorted issues out. When I proposed we had been going well for over 6 months past our last issue and nothing was on the horizon.

What attracted me to her was her outgoing personality, vibrance, and ease to be with. This coupled with a physical attraction that goes without saying. She was not always "dysfuntional" as you state. But I agree with that diagnosis as of now.

We first starting seeing issues when she changed jobs from a subbordinate position to Administrative position and got a taste of power and stress. This was then compouded with the birth of our children and my job keeping late hours at that time and traveling. In that time is where she identified the detachnment from me. Yet we had two more children with me thinking the issues were normal marital issues.

The need she filled for me was friend, lover, companion. One that I trusted and valued her input into my life and problems. In the last 3 years I have come to realize she is no longer wanting to be that person. There was a void and instead of dealing with it maturly, I chose to be a child and pout, whine, and demand. These are since bad habits I am aware of and are disposing of but still have backslides.

As to how I impact the marriage, I will try and summarize and hope it is the ball park for what you ask. I am now the major bread winner. It was not always that way. She took that role for 6 years as I got my MA and upgraded jobs into an administrative role. I was not unemployed, but was making 20K less I am than I am now. I am the caretaker of the children for the majority of the time, my job affords me to get home at 4:00 each day while hers is until 5:30. She handles most logistcis and finances. I have time now to devote to the family and her, and in her terms that has never been the case and causes her to feel smothered. I am a "very good" helper and "doer" around the house. But enev in that I was not acknowledged and treated a co-parent of our children. These were all issues that I have come to grips with that previously led me to look upon my marriage in a poor light.

There has been great retrospective on my part on my dealings and behaviors in the marriage. Most of which I have put behind me and now work on improving other areas. As for most here, there is the need for the EC and Physical closeness that is lacking and she gives the standard LD reply (No offense meant to LD'rs) and if you look at Happy Giant's wife and her reactions and coping mechanisms, they are similar to my W's.

Thanks for listening.

F4W