Hey Mama! WOW, glad I read your stuff today. Your post about MLC and other stuff describes my H perfectly...in fact, they are things I've documented for months now.
I've always known my H was sensitive...he's usually not the stoic type, just now b/c of my anger reactions to him opening up about our M. I believe that our marital problems were a trigger for a chain reaction that he's susceptible to, like the MLC pattern. He had the same symptoms in reaction to the trigger of his last job, and his issues in childhood. I'm not taking the blame off my shoulders, but it's good to realize that due to self-esteem issues, and childhood issues, guilt, etc., it's hard for H to cope with things in another way.
I admit, I have the tendency to "escape" conflict or depression too, but not with my M. We both bury our heads about things, but different things, which is I guess the reason why we keep each other afloat. Funny, in our early M years, H actually was the one to come and discuss problems, solutions.
Now that I think back, that was a time when he was confident, on top of the world, feeling lucky and good about himself. His M and career were great. Once that was taken away, he fell. Of course, BOTH fell apart at once...I wonder what would have happened if our M was stronger during his career troubles?
My solution....same as PL and others. You can't fix it for him. It's his to own, or it keeps coming back. I guess what I'm trying to do is recognize these things. There were things in life that made him feel low about himself, feel victimized, abused. As a friend stated, these are his vulnerabilities, the child in him....as I have mine. It's my job to take care of these, and to not trigger them with my selfish behavior and to try, as I would with any friend, to do my part in increasing those areas (self-esteem, etc). I can't solve it, but I can also say that looking back, I definately did a LOT to damage it further. There was a time when I made him feel like a million bucks, then I turned it around and made him feel like trash.
Also, knowing that the MLC "escape pattern" is something that they tend to...it's wise, when things are back on track and feeling close, to approach H and tell him that there's a pattern (in a non-embarrassing way) and to make him feel safe to come to you and talk instead of the pattern of running away. Also, you keep your radar up, if you sense a stressful time in life for H, or things that trigger the characteristics you listed, make sure you extend your friendship extra and are a safety.
I don't think this is being smothering, solving. It's being a kind caretaker (not in an obligatory way, either). It's watching out for someone you love. It's taking care of something fragile in them, as they would in us.
If I think back, there are many "fragile vulnerabilities" in me that H took care of....my issues from childhood, my need to find independence, find my voice, etc. I guess you do that for each other.
This is a good discussion. It turns the tables around from feeling "why is he doing this to me" and "I need more" to "this is my H--the good, the imperfections" and maybe brings LBS's to a ground of compassion and understanding. In a way, it's a level of understanding I never had before, for anyone...perhaps it took this pain for me to get there.
Sorry for the rambling post. I also agree with others about the P part of the M. Just be patient. I think it's his way of expressing the pain that you quoted in your MLC post. It's bubbling up through these comments and feelings. It's his way of saying that you really hurt him, he's drawing boundaries. So, in a way, it's good. At least he's not shoving it down, dealing with it and being depressed and miserable.
I say this b/c there are a lot of times I say dramatic things when I'm hurt as well. It's not what I really mean, when I think of it later, but rather a baramoter of how I'm feeling, in pain, overwhelmed, mad. I think it's what we do when we don't know a more constructive way of expressing our emotions.
Ex: just recently when H asked if I could deal with his infidelity...I said I was confused and didn't know. Maybe this isn't right. Did I mean that? Do I want a D? Deep down, no. But it was my way of saying: I can forgive you, I can see the logic behind this, but I'm in tremendous pain and that will take a while to go away. I am hurt and angry over what you did. I don't know where to start to fix this while in pain.
Always, this was a great post. Just what I needed tonight. I have for whatever reason, been feeling really sorry for myself today. Weepy this morning, angry a lot of the day, weepy again tonight. I just can't believe my H has left me. Back there again. My abandonment issues bubbling up. I always said my H & I were perfect for each other - I have issues w/ abandonment, and H has a tendency to withdraw and run.
But I am more powerful than all that. Your post gave me courage again. Because when I can connect to my compassion, I am strong as a lioness. I realize all the ways I did not understand or realize my H's sensitivities and vulnerabilities, and I too let my anger out at him in ways that he could not handle and that hurt him terribly. I think my H was trying to take care of me for a long time by "not leaving" and inside he was suffering and I didn't realize what he needed. I don't know if he ever will tell me (which is a great deal of my sadness today - I have had insights now, and I want him to care about them and find out about them - I want him to make it not "too late"). If that is ever going to occur, I must be very very patient (not my former strong suit). My sadness tonight is a loss of my usual PMA. I am feeling like he will "never" trust me or be close to me again, like he is gone forever. If somebody had a crystal ball and could tell me how it was all going to turn out, I sure would like it better. I notice the weekends are harder for me. Because if I see my H, I usually get to see him on the weekend. Last weekend, I spent the whole weekend with him. So this weekend feels like a big void because he is nowhere in my space. I will have to work on planning more activities for myself on the weekends with people I love. If I am truly going to be compassionate, and not a needy selfish LBS who only cares about what I had planned for my life, well then I better get a handle on this. I pray every day that I can work it out, inside myself, to truly love my H unconditionally. And, I don't know right now if I can do it. Sometimes I have the understanding and compassion, and sometimes I don't. But I want to. So I will keep plugging away with my DBing efforts. Thanks to all of you.
Mama, I hope this was applicable in some way to you, and wasn't a hijack of your thread...
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Quote: I did not understand or realize my H's sensitivities and vulnerabilities, and I too let my anger out at him in ways that he could not handle and that hurt him terribly. I think my H was trying to take care of me for a long time by "not leaving" and inside he was suffering and I didn't realize what he needed. I don't know if he ever will tell me (which is a great deal of my sadness today - I have had insights now, and I want him to care about them and find out about them - I want him to make it not "too late"). If that is ever going to occur, I must be very very patient (not my former strong suit).
PL: I am in the EXACT same place. I have seen some of my doing in this mess, and I would love nothing more than the chance to make it up to him. It breaks my heart to be faced with his cold, indifferent and hardened heart--I see he wants to be loved, but he's too scared and angry and resentful to let it happen.
In the meantime, I'm ready for that roadtrip!! In fact, I'll be driving across country in 4 weeks with 2 girls I know. To the boring state of Kansas, but hey, it's a start!!
Thanks, Mama, for helping us all. I am interested to see if there are any responses by LBS's on how to deal with the MLC'ers.
I'm off to the BBQ--you girls have a great Sunday!!
Sound like we're ALL in the same place. So, I don't think it's that we're impatient so much as scared that realizing our part in all of this might have caused us to lose what is dear. Gaining this compassion has been a painful thing as well, b/c you're facing all the mistakes.
I'm starting to see that I can't think of my pain without thinking of H's. I can't think of a way he makes me feel, without realizing that in our M, there was a point he felt the same way.
While it's great to go through this phase and get the positive outlook to be stronger, better and do it right, it's also sad, and overwhelming. How can we fix all the pain we BOTH caused?
But, only time will tell. Until then, do your best. Don't get bogged down by what H is doing, think of his pain too, and focus on YOU. Be strong, confident and better. Make these changes for YOU. You do have the power to love unconditionally, it's just that it's painful at times.
I assure you, things will turn around...slowly..think of how far we've all come already.
Hi all, I have been off for awhile. (actually, I do come here to catch up on people but I haven't posted much).
I am still struggling with the fact that H and I, while our relationship and friendship are improving tremendously, have no physical relationship.
It is also hard for me because he works with OW and I know that now and again they talk on the cell phone (yes, I admit I do occassionally snoop) - but this is not to start any confrontations but to protect my heart. He is giving me all the signs that the A is over and he has recommitted to our M but I must protect myself, therefore I snoop. I cannot go thru that bomb all over again nor do I want to feel like the idiot wife who closes her eyes to what her H is actually doing. I don't care if they are just talking about work - it bothers me, alot! They shouldn't be talking at all as far as I'm concerned. Of course, I don't feel I can say this to H as I don't want to appear controlling or giving ultimatums. So, I sit here wonder what the heck is going on with us and if I am just a fool.
I don't want to project onto him (as he has done to me in the past), I know I need to deal with my emotions and not react to them. Any more advice would really be helpful to me. Thanks!
Mama, you know this is prime OT territory. You and I are in a similar sitch as always.
I guess rather than advice, I have a question. You say he is giving you every indication that the A is over, and your relationship is growing, right? Has he actually SAID the A was over, and if so, have you and he talked about what that really means to each of you?
GH, no matter when I log on I can always count on you, thanks!
Quote: You say he is giving you every indication that the A is over, and your relationship is growing, right? Has he actually SAID the A was over, and if so, have you and he talked about what that really means to each of you?
Actually, he has never admitted to an A. He as always maintained that "it is not what I think". Well, we all know better, right. Anyway, I am stuck in this limbo and I don't like it anymore. While I don't want him to think that I'm ok with things as they are and that he can continue whatever R him and the OW have I want him to know that I need more. I know am pretty certain that he has had a midlife transition or crisis and was questioning everything in his life, he was possibly also suffering from some form of depression and self medicating with going out every night, drinking, spending tons of money and having a R with an OW. I understand all of this and am quite compassionate and am willing to forgive and forget. But I seem "stuck in the moment and I can't get out of it" (U2) - anyway, if things don't change soon I may go into my own MLC, I am 43 years old and I don't want to spend the rest of my life living with my "brother". Ya know what I mean?
Is it fear on my part of not just jumping his bones? Is that what he is waiting for? If so, he doesn't give any indications.
Today on the phone I asked him if he thought things were getting better between us. He said yes, and that he really liked doing the home improvement projects with me. I told him if he wanted to talk, about anything, that I was there to listen. He didn't really take the bait, so here I remain, in limboland....
No great advice from me (if memory serves sex is this thing that mummys and daddys do when they love each other very much???) but there are some interesting discussions going on in the SexStarved Marriage index about the type of issues you are dealing with.
Have you had a lurke over there? I think you'll find some good stuff.
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Thanks for dropping in on my thread. I've been all pissy this week...nice to get it out though. No point in focusing on detaching when the space apart is for facing the emotions.
I hear ya, there comes certain times in the day when you just want to crack just a bit. Going to bed is hard for me too, the obligatory "goodnight" followed by the rollover--wondering...hmmm, was he with her...will I get affection, etc. Of course, he's probably thinking the same thing, but I was following DB and "giving space" and not making any moves after OW bomb.
The best bet....he's in his own world...same thing posted to PL this afternoon. That being said, all you can do is be you, keep doing the things you think are right for you, are not pressuring, but friendly, loving but detached. Ya know, that wonderful tightrope. So, if you think giving a hug is nice, non-pressured, then keep doing it. Ignore the reaction, pay more attention to YOUR action/reaction. Be cheery, even when he gives you the "oh my God, I'm hugging a spider." That's my personal fave! Or the quick turn of the face to "please only kiss me on the cheek..." Seems now I'm doing that while H aims for the lips.
Consider it this way. His lack of affection, etc. is SINCERE...he's not acting, not able to lead a double life...which means he actually cares about the sincerity of the M. That's good. I was always happy that H pushed me away, and told me bluntly that he was confused and not ready to put his all into working on the M. At least it's honest. He may be lying about other things, but you have that. In the end, I've always been grateful that H has never lied about his feelings toward me, his desire to be with me...however harsh, I would hate for him to overestimate that.
Keep on hanging in there....when you're feeling about to scream, remind yourself of the phase you're in...DETACHED. Meaning, NO expectations, and take solace and joy in the fact that you reached out in a friendly way to a friend...how nice of you! PERIOD.
