Quote: sorry about the angry outburst...stick to your guns.
You know, I don't think advocating the use of firearms is an appropriate use of this board. I think we should all just take a deep breath and understand that this is a serious place and posts like that can...oh...what's that...oh...oops...my bad...metaphors get me every time...
Mama, glad to hear you've had a couple nice days. I really hope it keeps going that way for you. Even if things are not "fixed" it's nice to have a break every now and then. It's possible that his outburst may have been his "rock bottom" point and it was a little wake up call, who knows. Just keep the good times rolling and see what happens.
Mama--SO glad for the string of nice days. I've been having those too. Though it feels fake, b/c there is still so much to resolve and so much unsaid (esp. about the A in both of our cases), it's still a nice breath of fresh air. It's nice for me to see H happy, around ME. It's nice to be relaxed with a friend, to share a laugh and conversation.
Impact?? YES. I've found that having more of these times builds a "good" reserve of some sort...the hugs, thank yous, smiles all matter. When the R talk does come up and gets ugly, there is more compassion in the both of you, less defensiveness, less anger, resentment, and more willingness to understand. The positive vibes of many good days together build warmth that's likely to carry into a touchy conversation. My new attitide of calm and gentleness really made a difference in my H. He's now more willing to talk...not totally, but more. I'm more willing to be calm, and let the A subject slide for now and to be patient and understanding.
Being nice to each other brings out the best in us....puts us on our best behavior.
So, may seem like little gestures...but keep it up...it's for the best.
I will add this. Cherish these times too because if your life is anything like mine (or most people's for that matter) there will come a time sooner or later that due to no fault of yours or H's, life will be difficult and the ability to be happy is diminished. It will be in these trying days that the foundation of happiness you are building will be important. It will be when the smiles are fewer and farther between because of some of life's OTHER dramas (job issues, kid issues, money issues, etc) that you will look back on these days and realize that it IS possible to be together and be happy with this man, and he to realize the same about you. I think that's another thing that happens in these sitches, that they become self fulfilling if we are not careful. We spent all this time before the sitch being in a bad R, then all the negative feelings of the confession/discovery, yelling, crying, detachment, distancing, anger, resentment, coldness, etc, that we build up this incredible reservoir of negativity and it's really hard for either party to understand that anything else is possible.
Cherish the moments, prepare for the future of uncertainty and smile REALLY big the whole time!
Quote: Are things in this relationship not moving at the pace you would like? It's time to slow down and look at your expectations -- and why they're so important. Exercise patience, and like a muscle, it will grow stronger.
Life always involves a balancing act between how things are and how you'd like them to be. On the one hand, you have to recognize reality for what it is. On the other hand, you have to be able to visualize ways it could be better. The thing to avoid is imagining reality as something that it isn't. You won't fall into the trap of wishful believing as long as you're vigilant
GH, I am responding to your post on my thread as yours is locked up.
Anyway, it really helps me to see my H's point of view thru your eyes. Like you, he was ALWAYS the one to initiate ML. Lot's of times I rejected him and I can't really tell you why. I did have a self esteem issue and a poor body image that probably contributed to my not wanting to be naked, etc. H got tired of trying all the time and probably felt like either she doesn't enjoy sex or she doesn't enjoy it with me as she never seemed to have a problem with it in past relationships. His walls went up without me even knowing. He probably felt that way for years and settled for an "almost" sexless marriage. That I believe is our problem. The A and the OW are just a byproduct of that. I don't believe he intended to get involved with someone else. But he was feeling down and vunerable and someone came along and made him feel good about himself.
Now that he has decided to stay in our marriage I have to somehow convey to him that I do find him sexy and attractive and a fantastic lover. I do not want to hurt his ego or pride in any way so I feel this is a very delicate situation. GH, since you are in a way in the same boat as my H - could we role play for a while? What would you need me to do to make you feel safe in our R?
Ok, Grasshopper has left the building...I'm going to have to make it on my own...
Anyway, H called and said he wasn't coming straight home from work. Don't forget I babysit and I really wouldn't want ot come home to all these kids either, but right away my emotions get the best of me. I start to think that he is with the OW. Yada, yada, yada....my brain goes into overdrive. I call a new couselour, I look up divorce laws in my state, I am a crazy women. I can't do this anymore.
I try to calm myself down. In the meantime, he comes home when the kids are supposed to be picked up. Their father is late so therefore he is in a mood. (he feels these people take total advantage of my niceness) Anyway, he goes roller blading with our 2 daughters. They come back and babysitting kids and their father are still here - car trouble. When they finally leave, I find my H out back and ask him what is wrong - nothing. I sit with him. He is very quiet. I again ask him what is bothering him. Nothing. I then tell him that I found new couselors and am waiting to hear back on when I can see them. He tells me I over analyze things - NOTHING is wrong with me, sure I have issues from my childhood but the past is the past, you can't change things. I tell him I also have issues with our R - he tells me nothing is wrong with me, that I have NO issues. I am a great wife, mother and and VERY strong person for all that I have put up with and dealt with. Alot of other people could not be as strong as I have been. He tells me I can go to counseling but doesn't think I need it. I say I want to be able to control my emotions, he says why? He goes on to say he knows he has issues from his childhood and past, but you can't go back. He said he knows what he wants and needs. I don't know verbatim how our conversation went but I'm close. I knew something was bothering him but didn't want to pressure. A U2 song came on "stuck in the moment but you can't get out of it"- we know this song well as Bono actually wrote this about Michael Hutchence, the lead singer of INXS, another of our favorite groups. I asked is that how you feel. He said he felt exactly the opposite, He wasn't stuck and he could get out of it. Then I said are you talking about us and he said absolutely not, it has to do with someone at work - now, I assume that someone is the OW. I asked "do you want to stay married?" and he said, absolutely! He told me that I analyze things too much. He said things will work out in time by themselves. I said I want so much more from our R and he said he did too but he was not quite there yet. Anyway, it looks like he might have realized that the grass is not greener. Our grass is greeen with a few dandelions and some clover but it can be corrected.
I feel I did good tonight. I did not pressure him at all. He did say that something was "bittersweet" but would not elaborate on what. I am assuming maybe the end of the R with the OW. In any case I was supportive and loving and the night ended on a positive note. We will see what tommorrow brings.
P.S. So sorry for the rambling.... but it makes me feel good to get it out.
Quote: GH, since you are in a way in the same boat as my H - could we role play for a while? What would you need me to do to make you feel safe in our R?
Mama, I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. As I have said ad-naseum to OT when she questions me on my intimacy issues, and in general journaling, I would be FINE, more than fine really, if my W just showed a tiny bit of interest in me. That's all I would need to feel like initiating most, or even all the time. It's not that I feel unsafe, I just feel unloved. I mean I guess I know she loves(ed) me but with no physical manifestation of that love it becomes harder to believe that.
Now, in a perfect world my W would begin to instigate intimacy. She would touch me when we were near. She would rub MY back and hug ME. She would receive my kisses and initiate her own. In short, she would show interest, love, in me physically.
I am a bit of a strange bird in a way. I know my Love Language is physical touch but I don't need much of it to get my tank filled. I have been in relationships where my GF was all over me and I didn't like that either. I just need to feel wanted. I need those little moments above all else. Those little touches in the kitchen. The snuggle on the couch. The unexpected kiss. That's what I would need to feel loved by my W, and if your H is like me, then it's likely he wants the same thing.
Please, feel free to ask more questions about this. It helps me too.
Pat yourself on the back--better yet, give yourself a huge hug. You did well, better than I would've done in the situation. Be very proud of yourself, and hold that happy moment close.
Quote: I would be FINE, more than fine really, if my W just showed a tiny bit of interest in me. That's all I would need to feel like initiating most, or even all the time. It's not that I feel unsafe, I just feel unloved. I mean I guess I know she loves(ed) me but with no physical manifestation of that love it becomes harder to believe that.
Amen to that. This is more or less the issue between W and I and it has been for quite some time. I know and she ackowledges that she has always had a hard time being affectionate and intimate....sadly, it truly is my LL as well. In many ways, I do believe it lead to a breakdown in our R before.
I agree with GH, it really does come down to recognizing what your H's LL is and building it up.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
but it makes me feel good to get it out.