Ditto I read your post but don't respond as often as I once did for lack of knowing what to say. You have so much time and effort invested in your relationship and I can so understand your frustrations. Sometimes I wonder if or spouses need neon flashing lights saying excuse me I am trying to say something important here.
And that means looking inside and doing some very uncomfortable things, things your H may or may not be capable of.
I think this goes both ways. I am sure that my H could sit her and tell you all I do not do this and that for him. And he does this and that for me. I know my H would say that I do not put enough effort into being physical Just as I say he does not put enough effort into us being friends/communicating.
Chrissy, I admire the honest talk that you had with your H and your boundary setting. You have done so much...take some time now to take care of you.
Took me alot to do it. And seems like it was all in vain. But it has helped me finally decide what direction I want to go.
Quote: And since this negative outlook of him has spilled into the bedroom it effects our sex life also.
Chrissy, I think your negative outlook is entirely reality-based. Some of us on this board don't bring things up for "fear" of how our partners will react. But most of us do not really fear for our physical safety. We fear disturbing the comfort zone or upsetting the apple cart. Your fear is based on his past behavior and fear of how he might react in the future. Was it Schnarch who said, "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior"?
With all due respect, I think you husband is full of sh*t. By that I mean he is all bluff. The fact that he put a gun in his mouth says to me his is on a major king-sized pity pot. And then to use an empty gun at that!!! This does say something, and to me that is to call him on every bluff. Put the police on notice that he is violent. Then stand up to him. Let him know you have now gone stark raving berserk. He is putting on a grand show to intimidate and control you and it is working.
Any one who truly intends to harm or kill someone is not going to advertise it. They keep a low profile. Your H is sending up warning flares left and right. I don’t think he has it in him to carry through. Go talk to a lawyer, learn your rights, and let your H know that you went. Then keep a journal of everything that happens. As he starts to screams, just detach, pull out your journal and start writing in front him, everything that is going on. Keep your notes someplace safe. Let him get the impression you are building a rock solid divorce case against him and you won’t be pushed around. Don’t be afraid to speak up to him, to tell him what you think. Then record that and his angry replies. My bet is that he will cool his jets real fast.
This means he is capable of controlling his anger, but prefers not to. So he cannot argue temporary insanity, or that he just loses it, or his FOO fears are so powerful they just take over. The only conclusion is that this is conscious manipulation and control. Like I said, he is full of sh*t.
I am sure he will say you don’t do enough for him, you control the kids, the family, blah, blah, blah. The irony is that you feel the same way! Both of you are acting out because neither feels in control and you are both scared to death (yes, he is petrified!) I recall your original posts about your childhood. Does your H also have a troubled past that causes him to be so insecure?
I know you don’t react violently as he does. You withdraw instead. Just like my wife. To your credit you are trying to talk about the relationship. My wife tried to do this years ago. I thought counseling was just a bunch to voodoo. The problem seemed apparent to me – it was all her problems. The only we needed in counseling was for her to see that.
You are at your two choice dilemma. You want to restore the relationship and peace in the home. I see two ways for you to do this 1) Re-enmesh with your H. He is dependent on you for his sense of security, for his sense of purpose and who knows what else. Your pulling away is a threat to him and he is doing everything he can to make you go back to the way things were. If you do, things will quite down and probably get pretty good. As long as neither of you grow or advance, this is sustainable.
But you have already decided that you want more, so you are now facing option 2) You are trying to differentiate, to stand on your own two feet, to not depend on a toxic person, to set your own destiny. Either he goes along with this or you go alone. This is the big decision you two face.
Let me ask you Chrissy, have you read Schnarch? I am thinking you have not. I advise you to get the book ASAP and read through it COMPLETELY, the read it again. While reading, do your best to keep things as calm and peaceful as you can. Hold you ground, don’t give in, let him squirm, but exert your control. After you understand how your relationship is working and what stage you are at, sit down and have an honest discussion about what you’ve learn, how you want to save the marriage, how you love him and want to make him feel secure. I bet he will hear all this and respond to it.
But you are not ready to say it. You need to better understand your situation or you will promise things that will make you feel worse. You might box yourself into a corner and get really depressed. So learn up first. I DO NOT see your marriage as that desperate. It may seem that way to you, and you two are on step away from the cliff, but the issues you need to overcome do not seem that overwhelming to me. There are other with much worse to deal with (such as V-bube). But you two are your own worse enemy. You both are also your (and your children’s) greatest hope.
I'm sorry if I didn't respond to your post in an understanding fashion regarding your level of fear due to having not read back far enough in your posts. Though I might make the point that my LD husband has on occasion been verbally abusive (told me I'm too fat, called me a c*nt)and violently broken things (including a countertop that was over 100 years old ) when I've addressed the lack of sex issue in a direct Schnarchian way. Therefore, I have to deal with a certain level of fear when I bring up these issues also. However, I must add that if I really thought that he would hurt me physically, I would choose to leave the relationship rather than try to fix it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Cobra: I think this is not the best advice to give Chrissy right now: "I don’t think he has it in him to carry through." You're asking her to call his bluff, but you don't really have enough info to say this, considering the guy stuck a gun in his mouth!
If she "calls his bluff" and he shoots her, or whatever, do you then say, "oops, sorry, I guess I made the wrong call on that one."? Gambles like that aren't something you should recommend to others.
So the fact that the gun wasn't loaded tells you he's a big bluffer? I think it tells me he's a violent, whacko, attention whore. I think Chrissy is right to seek a restraining order, and get as far away from him as she can. No one should have to live like that.
Cobra, I appreciate your passion for Chrissy's sitch, but frankly, I wouldn't want to test a man would would put a gun-- loaded or unloaded-- in his mouth. The consequences of a miscalculation are too great to risk. The fact is, he's a loose cannon, unpredictible, and if she stands up to him as you suggest, I believe he is perfectly capable of shooting and possibly killing her and the children. Anyway, the possibility is there and must be considered.
My hunch is that most cases of domestic violence involving guns are not premeditated, but happen because a very violent person became angry and a weapon was handy.
I also don't think this was appropriate advice to give someone....who has a husband who has a history of physical violence towards her either. True, he may be bluffing about using that gun on himself (probably doesn't have it in him to follow-through on that...I'll agree) however, calling his bluff could trigger a different response towards HER. (BTDT myself)
Yes, I agree he could control his anger (if he really wanted to, if it were important enough to him to do so)....but so far, he hasn't ever truly done what it takes to do that. Hasn't even shown true signs of really wanting to. Yes, he's gone to a couple of counseling sessions, but he quit....LONG before any true progress. He made a showing of it, that's all.
I ask you to try to keep in mind that Chrissy is dealing with someone who HAS acted out physically towards her in the past when he felt threatened.....when you give her advice.
Holy Cow! This is an crazy thread to pop up on a Monday morning as I check into the board. Crzy because of the the situation... and Crazy as to my association with it. Much of the argument did sound like Chrissy is playing the role of my wife and I am playing hte role of her husband in my arguments. (Up until I read the Gun part.. then all of that ended.. I have never been to that point, have never acted like THAT, and for the life of me could never imagine getting anywhere near that point!!!) But in regards to the sexual argument ALONE, I don't know if I should even be involved in this discussion. I have had to many arguments with my wife that have gone no where and I don't want to put Chissy into that kind of horrid loop.
I do have to say that I have heard so many of these arguments before...
Quote: Okay what part of I will not want to have sex until we improve our relationship and this is gonna take time. Was not clear? What part of I need to worry about me right now and my depression and not be pushed was not clear? What part of I know that it is not fair but it is what I need right now was not clear?
Quote: H is not strong enough to give me this. He does not understand.
I swear I have heard this argument word for word so many times. And you know what.... I didn't understand. I'll admit that. My wife thought she was being incredibly clear. She thought she was expressing herself in very clear terms. But that is beacuse, in her own mind, with her background, it all made perfect sense to her. But me, coming from a totally different background, I couldn't understand. I didn't get it.
She said she wanted space and that we couldn't have sex until she got that space. My mind said "give her a few days to calm down and then try to show my love again. While she is in this crazy place and trying to sort out her feelings, she needs to know that she is loved. And how do I demonstrate my love? By initiating." Right or wrong, that is how my mind worked. I was filled with all those "Intimacy is the glue that holds a relationship together". "It helps husbands and wices bond and reconnect". "It is the ultimate stress relief and show of love."
So yes, my wife would say all of those things, and PLEASE don't get me wrong, if this guy is really playing with guns and has violent tendancies, then GET OUT and GET AWAY! I don't want to be on the side of someone like that. But I have seen the sexual arguments from the opposite point and I was just trying to do what "IN MY BRAIN AT THE TIME, was the right thing to do.
When my wife said all those things to me, I too was doing what I thought was the right thing by giving her space for a few days then trying to reconnect.
There is a lot to think about in this discussion! I better update my own discussion to see if my actions over the weekend helped or hindered, so I don't hijack your thread.
Bottomline, Chrissy, I have an especially big place in my heart for you right now, as I know the type of situation you are dealing with and I know that it is rough. But due to the fact that we will see things opposite from each other, I do't wnat to make things worse. If you have questions of me, feel free to ask, I'll gladly respond with my POV, but I don't want to make things worse by having my opposite view put you in a worse place.
I'm here if you need me, use me as a resource. I'm Happy to help. No pun intended.
When your W tells you she needs space etc.....have you ever asked her what she means by "space". The term "space" is a very vague easily misinterpereted term.
I suspect that your W does what many of us do (myself included in the past most definitely)....she speaks in terms she thinks are clear, but in reality.....the words she uses are very vague. So, you need to ask her to clarify....get specific. When she says she needs space "what exactly does space look/feel like to her?" To you it might mean backing off on asking for sex (just an example), to her it might mean something TOTALLY different. So if she gets irritated or annoyed that you are asking for specifics from her....try to relate to her that you are simply trying to make sure you understand what it is that SHE needs, so you can do your best to give it to her.
) when I've addressed the lack of sex issue in a direct Schnarchian way. Therefore, I have to deal with a certain level of fear when I bring up these issues also. However, I must add that if I really thought that he would hurt me physically, I would choose to leave the relationship rather than try to fix it.