That's the best post I have read in awhile, or at least one directed at me. I am printing that one out and carrying it with me for awhile. Thank you for that so much.
I know I need to do the "where I was 2 months ago" thing and I guess NOT doing that is another symptom of complacency in my sitch. Also, the GAL thing is a little tough right now for 2 reasons. First, I am SLAMMED busy with extra work right now so I am away a lot as it is. My "free" time away from work is almost totally consumed with family obligations, spending time with the kids, cleaning, etc. There really isn't much "me" time OR "us" time for that matter to be had for a couple more weeks. When that is over, and things settle down, I can refocus on the task at hand. In the meantime, I WILL finish DR, I will keep doing the little things, and I will back off because now is a dangerous time when we are all tired and weary from my work schedule and it's easy to be something other than loving towards one another.
I am going forward with realization that I am in a new place with my R and that time IS doing it's thing. I just wish it would do it faster, that's all.
I suppose I am looking for my W to have that "in love" reaction to me so that I know she's really back. I guess since that's why she claims to have left in the first place, that lack of "in love" feelings for me, then her NOT having those now signifies to me that something is still amiss. When I think about it more though, I suppose it's possible that she now realizes, as we all do, that the "in love" feeling she describes is temporary even in the BEST of R's and in a marriage, love takes different forms. I HOPE she realizes that even though love in marriage is different, is does not need to be passionless or devoid of intimacy like ours was.
Quote: I suppose I am looking for my W to have that "in love" reaction to me so that I know she's really back. I guess since that's why she claims to have left in the first place, that lack of "in love" feelings for me, then her NOT having those now signifies to me that something is still amiss.
Geez GH, you need to get out of my brain! This is precisely where I am right now in regard to my sitch. Thankfully, reading your posts helps bring some clarity, because I hadn't thought about it the way you are right now. I guess you're right.....hopefully they are realizing that the "in love" feeling is only temporary and love takes on many forms.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: I guess you're right.....hopefully they are realizing that the "in love" feeling is only temporary and love takes on many forms.
Ah, but here is the $64,000 question: Will a woman who valued being "in love" enough to break her marriage vows be sufficiently motivated to intimacy with a man whom she merely "loves"?
This is my struggle. It's clear that my W "loves" me. I don't think she ever stopped that. What is much less clear is how she translates that love into the thing that allows her brain and other parts to want to ML and other things centered around passion and general intimacy.
When I say I feel sometimes like I am at square one again, sans the OM, I mean it. I feel that way because one time, a long time ago, my W told me while we were in bed (we used to get into these HUGE, emotional conversations late at night) that we had always been great friends but she didn't think she thought of us as lovers. Mind you, this was WAY before the bombs fell, like years ago. Gee, might I have gotten a clue instead of blaming it on her being drunk, emotional, stressed, whatever? Nope. Since she blew it off the next day, so did I. Little did I know what would eventually become of that seed...
So, here we are, an ILYBINILWY speech/affair under our belts, communicating better than ever and yet there is NO spark. There is great friendship but no passion.
Once again, that brings up the issue of how far we get into this "reconciliation" before I ramp up my "efforts" in the intimacy area. With SO much water under that bridge and so much anxiety associated with it in my mind, it is really difficult for me to make those decisions. I know OT is right when she suggests that my W may be waiting for me to do precisely that, to MAKE decisions and to SHOW her my desire for intimacy. My W may never just "be ready" without me sparking that in her. I get that, it's just the doing part that is hard, especially when so much of the "normal" "by the book" stuff to romance a woman seems to fall on deaf, well, deaf something near the ears anyway.
This is just rehashing the same old issue with me and even I am getting tired of hearing me talk about it. Someone once said "It's about time to fish or cut bait." Maybe so.
Oh, one thing I did do, and BJ, this is for you, I licked the cheek Dunno if that has anything to do igniting passion or anything like that, but it got her attention. She presented me the cheek when I got home from work and I gave her a little lick. She asked with a smile "What was that? Did you just lick me?" I said with a bigger smile "Yep, and that's what I am going to do every time I get the cheek." We both had a little laugh. I actually think it may have helped indeed because it was something "physical" that broke the ice a little. Thanks for that BJ. Who woulda guessed...
GH, This is how I have been feeling myself lately:
Quote: So, here we are, an ILYBINILWY speech/affair under our belts, communicating better than ever and yet there is NO spark. There is great friendship but no passion.
My H and I never really had much passion either (except in the beginning b4 the kids). I don't want our OLD sex life back either but I do want A sex life. I want spontonaity, passion, fire; I want to feel wanted. I feel like we may be working back towards that but I'm afraid. I was never the one to initiate, this led to my H feeling unappreciated and unloved. If I initiate now, will he feel like it is too little too late? Will he reject me and tell me he just wants to be friends for the kids sake? So here I (and you) sit. What to do? Should we just go for it? I need to guard my heart, I don't think I could go through this hurt all over again.
OT has told me many times, and it plays in my head constantly, that I must be willing to take emotional risks at some point because it's what I want my W to do. Just by her returning to the marriage, she is taking a risk. She's risking rejection and has a lot more of a reason to think she'll face it than I do. She left and came back. I stayed but got hurt. If anything the next move is mine, any way you look at it. Either I pick the right circumstances and "go for it" or I remain cold and distant. For me though, being in a similar situation as your H, I feel like I need at least a shred of evidence that my W is open to it.
I guess you have the same issues. All I can say is that I wish I KNEW beyond my suspicions and what OT says, that my W, like your H, wished I initiated more, or differently. In my case, I am ALWAYS the one to initiate and like your H, that hurts me a lot. It makes me feel like not only does she not like me enough to initiate, but that she doesn't even LIKE sex so why bother.
Anyway, it's complicated for both of us. I would say that at some point you will need to explore your role in your intimacy. If you know it has been an issue in the past, then it's surely something you want to change. I am just not sure if now is the right time. I am sure though, that whenever you implement your "initiating" policy, it will not be too little too late because when you do it will be in the context of a R that can support such a thing. Make any sense?
I'm fairly certain that this is exactly how my H feels:
Quote: In my case, I am ALWAYS the one to initiate and like your H, that hurts me a lot. It makes me feel like not only does she not like me enough to initiate, but that she doesn't even LIKE sex so why bother.
It helps to have a man's view on this subject. The thing is I don't know why I never initiated. Sure, I was too tired most of the time from running the house and the kids and all. Mostly I took my H and my M for granted. I never really thought that one day my H would look elsewhere for love. I really love my H and I love being with him. Once we "did it" I was always thinking wow, we really should do this more often. Ya know?
In any case, I don't think we are ready for intimacy yet. We are still working on our friendship. Even though he is the one who strayed from our M, I am the one that can't be trusted. H needs to feel safe around me. Just because I have been nice and calm the last few days does mean I won't flip out by next week. He is protecting himself from me and my emotional outbursts. Once I prove that I have a handle on myself I think things will eventually move forward for me.
As for your W, she is probably feeling a lot of guilt. She can't be feeling very good about herself and questions why you would even want to be with her. Make her feel loved and accepted thru your words and actions and continue to do nice things for her. Eventually the pain of what she has done to her family will diminish and she will feel good enough about herself to be really loved by you.
Anyway, we've gone without it for this long so what's a few more hours/days/weeks
I'm really not sure what you are expecting from her in terms of encouragement. Right now, I don't see that you have given her much reason to believe you are capable and/or interested in giving her what she wants (which is probably a lot like what mamabear just said she wanted.)
What reasons you do give her she seems to respond positively to:
She asked with a smile "What was that? Did you just lick me?"
So, how much encouragement do you want??? Imagine things from her POV. "Gee, I really want a passionate love affair like I had with OM, but I'll have to give that up and rejoice about a lick on the cheek. Hey that's an improvement though and I really will appreciate it. I smiled, but I don't want to scare him away. He is so tentative and reluctant to have really hot sex as it is..."
Going along contentedly and happily in a sexless M is just reinforcing her believe that coming back to you means giving up the passion.
It is not frequency, it is quality and intensity that is important. You were on the right track with the whole touching versus feeling thing. Have you read PM yet????
You need to be strong enough and confident enough that she can enjoy the passion without needing to be a caretaker for your emotional fragility on this issue, if that makes any sense.
Do you think you are strong and confident enough for this to be the case or will any attempts at intimacy be too much about you and protecting your ego? If you can't do it and hold onto yourself and your happiness in light of rejection, then probably it will be too much about you for her to get what she wants and needs from intimacy. So, maybe you are best off waiting until YOU are really more ready for the emotional risks. But, quit making it about her fragility in your own head. She seems pretty strong to me, strong enough to act on her lack of fulfillment and do something about it, albeit temporarily and not in a particularly healthy way.
Dunno if that has anything to do igniting passion or anything like that, but it got her attention. She presented me the cheek when I got home from work and I gave her a little lick. She asked with a smile "What was that? Did you just lick me?" I said with a bigger smile "Yep, and that's what I am going to do every time I get the cheek." We both had a little laugh. I actually think it may have helped indeed because it was something "physical" that broke the ice a little. Thanks for that BJ. Who woulda guessed...