I have been reading some of your posts to others... You are doing really well and offering excellent advice. And, I think maybe you begin to see how really clear some things are from the "other side" -- i.e. pretty freaking crystal clear, lol.
And, perhaps you are beginning to feel the frustration of watching people who keep hurting themselves and who keep seeing and hearing things in a way that merely confirms their beliefs, rather than really helping them move forward. In most cases, the wheels will eventually turn and movement will happen some way or another. But, not in all cases. You can help those most who really *want* to hear what they least want to hear, lol.
When the defenses are still totally up (and they reject the obvious or hear it as validation of their own view in a very distorted way), advice may actually backfire by giving them something to fight against or take as bolstering their own rightness, rather than looking at themselves. (Kind of like continuing to fight with a WAS helps them cope by giving them a target to shoot at and showing them they are right to do so, which once removed makes them look at themselves instead...)
Anyway, keep up the generousity of spirit you are now showing to others. The old pay it forward tactic really does help others and it will feel good to boot
I would disagree with the literal statement that I am "on the other side". I am in spirit but in reality, I am still mired deeply in it as far as I am concerned.
I do feel like I see things a bit clearer now by virtue of going through it, seeing so many others go through it and reading a TON of material on the subject. I am NO expert, but I hope I can help somebody the way you and others have helped me. I think I owe it to the people here.
because recently someone did that to me only thing is I didn't kiss the cheek I licked it they havn't done it since
I think you need to talk about this - you are too far into the mending part of the relationship to not bring it up maybe licking her cheek will give you the opening next time
Yea BJ, I have giving a LOT of thought to the idea of where I am at in all this and what it means I should/could do. I just feel like, knowing my W, that we are not as far along as it seems for the simple reason that W never really claimed a renewed love for me in any strong, passionate way, simply that she knows she needed to end the A and come back to the marriage. It's her reasons for doing so that lead me to think there is much more to work on before simply accepting that the M is ripe for passion and intimacy.
I think (and this is because W said as much) W gave up the OM for two reasons, neither of which is really the best for US. She gave him up mainly because she knew the affair was wrong for her. Secondly, she did it because she figured out he was an ass.
She did NOT necessarily give him up (oh, and of course I am not SURE she even really did at this point) because she realized that I am the ONE for her (even though we all know I AM, lol). Now, I am not one of those people that need her to have come back because of how great she thinks I am. I am ok with whatever reason she came back but I am honest enough with myself (gotta work on being honest with HER) to know that there is a LOT more work to be done now that she is "back".
The lack of physical intimacy thing seems to be the most obvious indicator of what is still missing and based on what I just said about the "reasons" she came back, I know that I need to have a beginners mind towards all this and realize that while I have renewed self-confidence, I need to show her I have changed. That will take time and a consistency in my actions which I think she has already seen. I KNOW I am a different man in terms of my thoughts on intimacy, sex, and passion. I just need to gradually let her see that because I think the deepest of our relationship's wounds can be found in this area so I tread lightly until such time as I can tread in the way best suited to show my W how much I desire her as a woman and a partner. The step lightly part is only because I think she needs time to process the fact that I love her in a physical way but NOT only for sex. I know OT has scoffed at that in the past but this is just one of those things I need to handle in my own way. It may be the wrong way, but it's the way I have chosen so I will live with the consequences.
That brings me to me semi-last thought (lol). I am afraid, as usual, of just sliding back to our, especially MY old ways now that it seems like OM is gone. I feel that happening and even though I catch myself doing/saying things the "old" way, it makes me shudder to think how unconscious I have become and I think it was in responding to PL's post about being tired of all the daily analyzing that made me realize that I need to stay MUCH MORE on my toes. I am getting too comfortable.
I was thinking that was the right thing to do, just BE comfortable but now I realize that it's not. I still have a pretty long time ahead (probably forever now that I see what the alternative is) of me analyzing, or rather, being aware of myself within this fledgling relationship. Getting complacent/comfortable is going to lead to the same misery I went through before and I don't think it will do anything to help my M.
So, today's goal is to become aware of my actions/words more. I will probably re-read some DB tonight and (oops) finish DR (funny, never did get it all read) and just try to refocus myself ON myself so that I can make sure the things I am saying and doing are according to my true desire to be an improved man or if they are a reversion to being unaware and lazy...ouch.
In the end BJ, I hope you are right. I hope we are mending and the time is now for action that reflects that. I just want to make sure MY action is the best one(s) for me and my sitch.
It is really great that you completely get that the absence of OM is not the solution to your problems :-) Of course, how could it be, as it wasn't the source??? The reason you have such a good chance here is because you aren't simply waiting for W to "come to her senses," "quit acting crazy," and "dump OM." Rather, you are really treating your W's actions with compassion and empathy, and looking for the best in her to explain her painful actions rather than dismissing them as crazy. This is the secret to success in any R -- generosity in how you interpret the actions of others and respect for their deepest motives if not their actions.
Read the rest of DR it has a lot of different stuff in it than DB - I think it will make a lot more things a little clearer for you and give you some different ideas
in regards to going to back to where you were this won't happen no matter how comfortable you get simply because when it begins to happen you will immediately recognise it for what it is and do something about it
and your wife returning but not saying it is because she loves/cares for you or you are the one actions speak louder than words our behaviours give us away much more than our words she is saying a lot you are just waiting for it to be spoken
Wow, attack of the killer two letter women! BJ & OT, thanks, you both carried my night. Sometimes I just need to hear that I am doing the right thing because even though in my heart and mind I know it is, it IS nice to hear it from someone else. Thank you both.
OT, if I posted that, well, then I don't actually remember it. She told me that she loves me and realized that she'd made a mistake in all this but to my knowledge, she has yet to say she's either falling in love, or in love with me again. She HAS said she loved me more in the past 2 weeks than the past several years if THAT counts for something.
That's part of the problem because as usual, my W did utter those famous words 5 months ago...I love you but I'm not IN love with you...so basically, we could very well be right back where we started again if all that's going on is that OM is out of the picture. That's why I AM still focused on making things better, because I did accept that OM was NOT the overall issue and today's sitch proves that to be true. If he WAS the problem from the start then we would have intimacy and all the other things that go with a good marriage. The fact is that we do not and it's due to the issuse still facing us, some having to do with the A and many more not.
While I do THINK we are in a place in our R that truly IS better than 5 months ago, I am not sure about that and thus my hesitation in certain things. Of course, I fully realize that my "hesitation" in certain things may have contributed to the original issues and that's the catch 22. I have to figure out just what to go for, and when, and what truly needs more time before it's appropriate.
I feel she's getting there and that I am making the right choices to best ensure a lasting R. We'll see.
I think even you, wise grasshopper, needs to look to your solutions journal and monitor your baby steps. You need some markers to see where you are and so that you can see the progress that is actually occuring on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. Two weeks of ILY's from my H would be a dream come true to me right now. And remember, when you fall "in love" with a true love that lasts (instead of just an infatuation) it takes time. And that would have to happen all over again, just like starting from scratch. You guys have really just started on a new R. I think your thoughts about getting too comfortable are important to pay attention to. Finish DR, review your goals, and write out your baby steps. It's only been 5 months. Get in action - focus on yourself with vigor once again. Take a breath and leave your wife be for just a bit, just respond with your love when the opportunity arrises. I sense you have been focusing/working too hard on her. Do something really great for yourself today
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
