Frank, I could post a blow by blow response to your last post but really it all boils down to amen brother. I am in the same place and feel the same things. The main difference, and something I am trying to do in my sitch, is that you and your W talk about this stuff, something that I think is really good and will prove to be extremely helpful in repairing the damage.
Also, the other day you found out some pretty heavy stuff about your W's past and seemed to get a different perspective on things. Did that altered perspective include some renewed patience?
I just think that it would be foolish of US to throw our M away because we finally get to the promised land of self awareness and take responsibility for our lives and our W's are not quite there yet.
Frank, you have the internal power to make it a while longer, really, probably as long as any of us. You know that most of your negative emotions are born of frustration stemming from your elevated emotional vantage point. You can SEE all this stuff much clearer than your W can but you are frustrated at having to "let" her find her own way. Trust me, I understand.
I just want to encourage you to ease back, reign in the emotions a little bit (BTW, you seem to be doing much better with that already) and wait. You ARE talking. You ARE progressing, and you ARE seeing signs. Recognize that you have come SO far and the distance you have yet to go before things get MUCH better seems to me to be small in comparison.
Quote: Also, the other day you found out some pretty heavy stuff about your W's past and seemed to get a different perspective on things. Did that altered perspective include some renewed patience?
Most definalty. I was talking to her about it and told her that I would NEVER let my daughter go through that kind of thing. That I would tear the moon out of the sky if I had to to get justice, to protect her. This never would have happened if I was there.
I told this to counselor today and she said "you did protect her by SAYING that to her". you made her know that she was safe with YOU.
Quote: I just think that it would be foolish of US to throw our M away because we finally get to the promised land of self awareness and take responsibility for our lives and our W's are not quite there yet.
Yes, sometimes it's frustrating and I have to vent. I feel just like you said though, 'WE are there, when will they be?'. Patience.
Quote: You can SEE all this stuff much clearer than your W can but you are frustrated at having to "let" her find her own way. Trust me, I understand.
Yes, you do. It's our cross to bear - we know the answer but we can't tell them.
Quote: I just want to encourage you to ease back, reign in the emotions a little bit (BTW, you seem to be doing much better with that already) and wait. You ARE talking. You ARE progressing, and you ARE seeing signs. Recognize that you have come SO far and the distance you have yet to go before things get MUCH better seems to me to be small in comparison.
I have been. Thanks for the reinforcement. My biggest worry is that SHE will give up. She has a ways to go still. And Luckily I still know what to say to her most of the time. And when to say nothing.
I am glad you are on these boards and can safely say anything about how you feel and think it would be much harder without people who understand a little how someone else can feel in a almost similiar situation
the simple fact she is talking to you about how she feels what she wants what she wants to feel what she thinks about feelings and what she isn't feeling that she thinks she should are all huge positives for you
unfortunately time is what is going to fix this if she didn't feel somewhat safe with you she would not bring up the talks she does if she didn't feel like something was wrong (and probably with her) she wouldn't have gotten upset and cried
that feeling she is looking for - well it can be in many forms and at the moment she is thinking of one that one that people get when they are in 'the lust' stage not in 'the love' stage so you just keep on doing what you are doing and don't worry about it too much it will happen it just takes time
do you guys have a 'date' night or anything where you dress up and go out??? getting close can happen in more ways than one but then you already know this
I haven't chimed in on your sitch in a while and I'll echo what BJ has said.
Long ago I could not believe the common pieces of our situations - and it continues to do so. My W is not the victim of abuse (sexual anyway that I am aware of or that she has claimed), but she was emotionally abused. She is an ACOA, parent split when she was 8 and it was ugly, etc. It effected our LL by creating a wall by which she felt she could only ML if she had a light buzz on. Sad. Don't get me wrong, she is not an alcoholic, we both drink only occasionally.
In our last couple counseling sessions, some of the hurt and anger has started to pour out and we starting to work through it. I'm moving back and I have the same sense we will eb and flow like you and your W. We're pretty enthusiastic now, but I know there will be times of downers.
One question for you however - which I don't know that I have mastered, but has helped. I've really worked at "creating" attraction between my W and me - and I continue to do so. Too much to explain on the board so I may send you an e-mail describing more.
Anyway, you continue to inspire and I can certainly feel your frustration. But, I see you guys MOVING forward and only forward....
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Quote: One question for you however - which I don't know that I have mastered, but has helped. I've really worked at "creating" attraction between my W and me - and I continue to do so.
Yes, I do. I have 'how to be attractive to the woman you love' and I find its concepts very useful for creating attraction. It's a bit expensive but very helpful.
The other nite W and I were sitting, watching a TV program together. SHe asked me to massage her feet so I did. While in the middle of this she asks me what I'm thinking about. I really am not thinking of anything and I say 'nothing really'.
She tells me she doesn't believe me, I'm not being honest, etc. , starts to become annoying. So I pause. I look at her feet with their red nails and then at her and I say:
"Well, your feet are kind of sexy and when I look at you, I think about rubbing more than just your feet with my body".
She says "Well see, you were honest". She goes into this diatribe about how I'm not willing to tell her what's really on my mind and other stuff like that. She doesn't seem to be able to accept that I don't think about her all the time. So, I let her talk and I validate but I also point out that I really DON'T have something on my mind ALL the time.
So I massage her feet for another 10 minutes. She asks me if I want a foot massage and I say "No, my feet are fine, they don't need to be rubbed". So she says "I bet you need something else rubbed". More teasing. I tell her she is being a tease and she says she's sorry.
So we watch some more TV, I go put D10 to bed and come back downstairs and sit with her some more. After a while she looks at me, reaches over and grabs my shirt and pulls me on top of her, then starts 'seductively' kissing me.
Well, uh? What? Ok, I go with the flow, but I do play a little hard to get...
One of the kids comes downstairs so of course we have to get to opposite sides of the couch since they aren't supposed to know we are doing anything to reconcile. "In case it doesn't work out". Don't want to get their hopes up you know...
After they're gone, it's back to watching TV again. Oh well.
11ish it's time for bed, so we go to our (my) room, in bed, lights out. Laying on our 'sides' of the bed. She moves over and puts her arm around me. She does this sometimes when we go to bed. Likes to cuddle a little.
Then she says "Come on cowboy, what are you waiting for?"
Well, you don't have to tell me twice!
Later, I'm trying to figure out how we went from "I'll never feel it" to "let's do it" in 24 hours. Hard to trust her right now. The past 2 days she has been more comfortable with me, she really seems to be acting as if she is in the marriage. We are still 'secretly' kissing or hugging so the kids "Don't catch us". But she has warmed up a lot more. No ML since 2 days ago though.
She's going away today for the weekend with D10 and her Girl Scout troop to a big mega campout till sunday. So far, whenever she goes away she comes back more distant. So I'm setting my expectations carefully.
So, the rollercoaster is still going, and going, and going....
Maybe, it's the "secret" hugging and kissing that makes things a little exciting for her, leading to her libido being heightened. Just a thought. Kids are not stupid, however, - I bet they've already figured something is going on.
It's good that you are not setting your expectations too high - try and work on letting her come to you, without being cold or distant. More like warm and inviting, but not pursuing.
Have a good weekend!
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
you know those secret clandestine relationships are hot because of the secrecy it would appear that you are creating one within the marriage relationship
and all I can say is 'foot massage appears to be working'
I think you are doing good and you are just following her lead in this which is great and is working for you so keep doing it
also I understand what you say when you said you weren't thinking anything it was just nice to sit with a person you trust massage their feet and 'zone out'
