Quote: You ok Frank? Long time between posts for you, just checking in on ya.
Thanks GH and Amy.
Well, I have been having a difficult time trying to figure out how exactly to explain to the people on the board what is going on. The past 4 days W has been sleeping in 'our' bed with me, she goes to bed with me and gets up before the kids do so they don't see. This was her idea. No sex or cuddling, just sleeping. She's been flirty, then distant like she's afraid of something. Especially afraid of any sexual contact. However, I would say that since friday she has warmed up slowly.
And this is the reason.
On Thursday we had a 'couples' session with Counselor that was supposed to be just her, but she thought we should go together so we did. Once again providence was guiding us...
I can't really explain all that happened in the session, I don't think anyone here (except possibly Amy) could understand this. I know it's taken me a couple days just to get grounded again.
Counselor went through the 'reasons' why W doesn't feel like she can commit to marriage - 'till death do us part', that is her issue. W gave the usual 'what if Frank does this and what if frank does that?' and Counselor pointed out that your marriage vows DO come with conditions. You don't stay if your spouse beats you up, or is otherwise abusive. And problem drinking is abusive, so it can be considered a 'condition' of keeping a marriage. Your vows do not include 'being abused'.
While you are required by your vows to do the best you can to help someone it should not be at the expense of you or your families safety.
Ok, so that helps her to see that she can commit with this one condition that seems to be her biggest fear.
But, I've said many times that I was NEVER abusive, and that nobody I know thinks our life was 'that bad'. That she was over stating the situation. Even Counselor has come to believe that.
So, I brought up another time in our life when she 'left' me. Years ago after we had dated for about 2 years she was living with me then suddenly one day during a barbecue at our house she said she was leaving, had her bags packed and just left. She said she 'couldn't live like this' and left. I didn't see her again or talk to her for about 9 months. I had no idea why she left and she couldn't tell me.
As it turned out, she was afraid she was getting too close to me and that scared her. So she had been sleeping around behind my back. She felt incredibly guilty and left. So she went back to her high school behavior of just dating guys, sleeping with them a while then dumping them. It was her form of 'control' over men.
She eventually found her way back to me months later because, she said, I was the only person she had ever known who was stable and knew who he was and where he was going in life.
I don't want to get into the details of things here because it's too complex. But the basic situation is that W was severely sexually abused as a child and even though she had told me about it, she had never told me the extent of it.
While I was strong, she felt very safe. When I was weak she felt unsafe. It has affected her trust and safety issues and after I had my problems, she simply was unable to deal with life, never felt safe or other things like that. It was when she was then approached by the OM , who was an emotional predator, that she felt she was 'saved' and would be safe again. After he turned out to be even worse, she has withdrawn from relationships altogether.
But for all the wrong reasons.
Counselor went through a series of questions that helped W see that she felt very safe in our marriage, and IF something were to go wrong again like it did she was now in a position to assert herself and prevent it from happening.
But, there were a significant amount of issues going back to this childhood trauma that had been affecting our marriage for 15 years without us understanding it. Things I knew nothing about.
I ended up leaving the session so she could spend the time with C working on her own issues. She was pretty much a wreck and I think this was a real turning point for her. Now she can see that she wasn't 'unsafe' with me, she was 'unable to speak' when she needed to the most.
And that she hadn't dealt with these old issues even though she had therapy before, theyt weren't as good as our current Counselor is.
So, another hurdle to deal with. I guess I knew that I would have to pick myself up first, and then I'd have to help her get back up after that. A lot of work to do now. But I think we'll be all right eventually.
I'm leaving a lot out of this post because it's just too disturbing. I have so much rage at these people for hurting her and at her father and mother for not protecting her. We've been paying for their ignorance for 15 years.
The demons that live inside of us cause us so much hurt and many are there because OTHERS put them there. Right about now I want to go kick her fathers ass for not taking care of her when she was a lttle girl. He knows what happened but I don't think he lives with it. Not like she does.
LIke I said, in the beginning of all this my counselor said "However this turns out, it will be because of what YOU DO and not because of anything she does." I hope I'm doing the right things. Sometimes it's tough to know what that is. But, I do love her and I can see the beauty inside her soul.
Since friday we have been slowly getting closer. I think that was a defining point in our trust levels. We're going out on a 'date' tonite so we'll see how things go.
Still reading, but not posting, as you have some really good help already.
I was also sexually abused as a young child and never told anyone. I hate to use this overused term, but I did have a "dysfunctional" family for a variety of reasons, and I did not feel that I could tell anyone or I'd get in trouble for it. I couldn't remember exactly what had happened - just had nightmares and other symptoms - until about three years ago. I had PPD, dealt with that, and then a few months later, I was in a yoga class and had such a severe flashback that I had a panic attack. That was the beginning of a hellish several months of dealing with this. I think the PPD somehow unclenched it, not sure how.
Anyway, thing is, this thing that happened to me more than 30 years ago had had *huge* repercussions on my life THAT I HADN'T EVEN REALIZED CAME FROM THAT. Once I was able to deal with that issue and clear it up, a whole lot of other things got better too. Except, my R with H.
At first, he wouldn't believe that it really happened. Kept saying they were "false memories." Then, he got really angry. Our sex life was already not great and it was like this just put out the rest of the fire. He would not touch me. I don't know if he was afraid to or what, but it made me feel terrible about myself.
I think that this could be a real breakthrough for your W. I had spent many years in therapy before all this came out, and I really think I was just ready at the time when it did. My T had made no mention of sexual abuse; I was the one who brought it up. No one else had ever said anything about it either. He helped me so much and it has really made a huge difference in my life. This may sound strange, but I'm really happy that your W has told you and the C about this, so now she can start to heal.
~Nicola
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
huge turning point for you both - I guess by now most people know that I believe that we can't fix the past so should not focus on it too much - but there are exceptions to this and what happened to your wife (and Nicola) as a child is definatley one of those exceptions - this is not an area that I have been involved in and if I have a client and child abuse comes up I shall refer them on to a specialist in the area as I truly believe that one is required and I am not the specialist in this area
I do think however that simply the fact she has brought this up and is talking about it is a great thing to have happened and the fact that you are with her in feeling for her is a good thing on your behalf I would guess that at the moment it is not you that she doesn't trust but more herself at picking who she can trust - she has just let herself down with predator om - she probably feels she should have known and instead she believed him
she is sleeping in the same bed as you that is a huge step for her and shows she trusts you to cuddle and nothing else just yet
She learned a lot of self-protective behaviours in her younger years and then allowed you in even after she got frightened initially
She is moving forward slowly - and I can see you are not hurrying this process up at all which is good - let her take the lead and set the pace the counsellor does indeed sound like a very good one
and Nicola I would say that your h didn't know what to do/say/or how to respond and so did what a lot of people do acted like nothing had happened but couldn't quite pull it off - which to you made it seem like he didn't believe you
I think you are doing really well Frank and by the way I bought 'shall we dance' and watched it last night I love the part where (towards the end) Gere says that he loved his wife he was just unhappy with his own life and didn't want to share his unhappiness with her
and of course the best bit was where he turned up at her work with a rose
if anyone can get through this you can - you have come through so much already and really understand your w much more than she realises at the moment - though I am sure she is now beginning to see it
Sorry to hear about what your W is going through but I too think it's an obvious turning point that frankly (no pun...ah well, sure it's intended) I'm sure a lot of people would never have gotten to. Not to apply you sitch too universally, but THIS is why sometimes we need to just let time play it's part and have patience.
I think now that you understand what she went through and what she's going through now, you can make more informed decisions and I should think this should also bolster your ability to HAVE patience with her. She just let you in on something that only a handful of people know and I suspect THEY only know because there were there at the time.
I have known people who have been affected by such things and it really does do things to you. I hope she can get a grip on this and I have no doubt that you will be a loving, kind supporter of her should she turn to you for that.
Well, we sit together and watch tv while cuddling. We sleep in the same bed. Sometimes we will kiss and she will kiss me back.
Today she told me that she wanted to have sex, but wasn't really sure or enthusiastic. As we talked she changed her mind and said that she doesn't feel that 'feeling' she should feel and maybe we'll just live together and be great friends but never have sex. She was very upset when she sadi this. She feels like she should have this 'passionate' feeling for me and I told her about the times we've 'started' to have some of these feelings and gave her some examples of when she was feeling a little of that 'electricity.'
I mentioned that counselor said that having sex builds intimacy and desire, that 'waiting for that electric feeling' isn't going to just happen.
I told her that we both are in the same place, we're hurt and slowly rebuilding trust and feelings. She agreed when I told her that there are a lot of good things about me, that she talked about last couples meeting, and that I have a lot of good feelings towards her and want this to work. She says when we cuddle and sit together at nite she feels very comfortable with me.
But, she says she needs that 'electricity' that isn't there for her to feel sexually attracted.
It's been barely a month since she decided to 'try' and she has expectations that it'll all change overnight or somehow I will create these feelings in her.
So, she went and sat by herself for a while, and I could see she was crying, probably because she want's to feel it and if she can't then she's either 'trapped' or has to break up the family so she can feel it somewhere else.
I feel crappy. It's like 2 steps forward, one step back. I don't have an answer for her. I can't make her feel those feelings and when she keeps that barrier there it isn't much I can do about it. Maybe she won't ever be 'in love' with me because too much damage has been done by us.
Yet she felt this 'attraction' a couple months ago when we were 'comforting' each other. But her explanation is that she was 'in a cloud' then so it wasn't real. And she wants 'real'.
I had a meeting with my Counselor yesterday and I talked about some of this, about how she just has so little feelings. Counselor warned me not to get resentfull and to stay patient. I've done that and to be truthful, I just don't think she's ever going to really love me again. Maybe she never did. I was just 'stability' when her life was unstable. ONe thing COunselor and I agreed on is that she is very lucky she married ME. Another man probably would have just left her a long time ago. At least the kind of men she was dating before she met me.
I know she would like it to work out that we fall 'in love' and live happily ever after but it just may be too late for her to feel it.
So, I am just very tired from hurting. I haven't cried in weeks and today I feel like it so I guess I have had enough of being with someone who is so unable to love me, but could love practically anyone else. Six months of beng thrashed by someone you're supposed to trust and who is supposed to take care of you when you are down but didn't, is taking its toll on me.
She's in a little better mood right now but I'm not. I'll continue to 'act as if' and at least know I've done my best. She's a quitter, and after the past weeks counseling she has a lot of emotional problems I can't do anything to help her with. Maybe it would be best to dissolve the marriage and household so she can go live her life and perhaps it will help her to heal. Staying with me doesn't seem to be helping.
I think I might be of more use today than I have ever been.
My wife changed over night. I cant say I deserve my wife becasue GOd knows I did huge damage to my marriage but you juct cant believe how strange these women are. Sorry AmyC
Crazy. Not in a bad way but just how they feel and think.
My wife is on board 120%. Read these emails.
Wife,
Maybe we could just plan an overnight something somewhere with the kids like saturday afternoon till sunday.
Do it on the cheap but just so we can get away.
Just something to look forward to and get out of the grind. I am not sure what the best would be but just maybe we could start with something. Let me know what you think.
I am at barnes waiting for Steve and then we will be driving all over CA.
Don't wotk too hard. I don't mind taking the kids at all. The only times I can't is when I have 9AM appointments.
_____
ok - I'll think about a 1 nighter somewhere for us.
Be careful driving around today - it's wet.
Love, me
_______
Will do. Also, I thought with kids but if you want just us that's great too.
Love, Me
______
I did mean all of us (boys too). Maybe for our "biggie" in June just you and I can go somewhere.
______
Your choice. We need alone time too, so ill leave that up to you.
A family that plays together stays together and smiles together.
I just want us all to smile and walk together as a family.
Me
______
me too
______
I'm back.
Working from home
Have fun with boys and practice, call me later.
Me
_______
ok - thanks
_________
Amazing isnt it. Like nothing ever happened. Changed on a dime. You know my entire story and I do think you can make heads or tales of this.
You know the stories on these threads. Dont they all have the same feeling. I know I can read the ones now where I dont think there is much hope or there is a lot of game playing and where there is hope and there is WAY TOO much game playing and not know what you have until its gone theme (Like Yours).
In closing I think if you left it would SHAKE your wife up, BIG TIME! But at the same time the #1 fact that brought my wife back and this is huge:
I never gave up, never dated and stayed the course. (From my wife's mouth. Infact her friend also said these same words and told her how valuable that was)
In addition if I had of left she told me she might of come back but it would have taken much much longer if ever. Because she is a runner she would have ran and not had the guts to step on her pride and come back.
And here is the clincher for you. When I found out what friend it was that helped her find her way home, I was shocked. I hated this girl! I mean hated her, I threw her out of my house one time. She is now welcome any and all the time.
