Starting over

[DonH]

I agree with Amy who agrees with Becca. In a different way, this is what I tried to say last week. Clearly the conclusion is the same. As I read one of the last entries I got the clear feeling that Frank does not know what to do because his W does not know. The really bad thing is, I don't think there is anything that you can do. She is looking for you to create a feeling within. This is pretty much the same as counting on you to make her happy. She needs to be happy within herself first. The same hold true here. I don't want to make this 3 against 1 but...

[bj]

Ooohhhh a Scorpio eh

I fully intend to stay away from them in the future
they give you their heart and soul and all the trust in the world until they feel you let them down and then they back off big time

maybe that is the key Frank

I am reading your thread and get this feeling your are perhaps trying too hard you really need to look at what you are doing

you and w seem to do lots together (kinda joined at the hip stuff) maybe now is the time to 180
you cannot give her what she wants when she doesn't know what she wants
how about giving you what you want GAL big time - go running, walking without her start gardening alone
get a new hobby, join a class etc
be busy doing things and not so worried about what she is doing or what message you may be sending her
don't check on her to see if she is ok

and then communicate big time all the stuff YOU are doing leave her a space for her to slip into along side you if she wishes but don't worry if she slips in and out

I think you are trying too hard - and that is why it is not working - I get the impression you are constantly thinking and watching and waiting (like walking on eggshells scared to make the wrong move) you need to just be YOU

Scorpios ARE the sexiest signs in the zodiac - but they are confident people, and just do things you need to work on YOU more I think about 70% on you and what you want and 30% on w and what she wants

the worse feelings I get are when H makes it all about me, and tries to second guess what I want, need, will like
when the focus is not on me I feel much better - not under the microscope

you need to do more things outside the r and say hey I am doing xx wanna come - wait one minute - and then say ok cya
and go - you will come back with lots of stuff to talk about and maybe things you picked up - like hey look what I got

you need to create something so she wants to follow for fear of missing out on something new
you can't do that the way you are doing it - focussing on her

stop trying to kiss, cuddle etc let her initiate it for you
if she doesn't don't worry -
I am not sure what I am saying here
I just get the overall feeling the focus is so much on her that she may feel like she is under a microscope and her reactions are very guarded due to this

hope you understand what I am trying to say here and that it makes some sense

bj

[bj]

and I should spell out why I am going to stay away from Scorpio's
have this eternal attraction to them
seem to always end up with a Scorpio
why
they are interesting and confuse the cr@p out of
so independent, do things on their own if you don't follow quick they move on without you
they don't say much but their behaviour says volumes
when you are with them you are on a pedestal but if you are not with them they knock you off and move
they don't give up on anything easily but be careful for when they decide to stop working on it
poof they are gone

can't work them out - they are so independent minded - they are the biggest fakers of I am alright anyway

they are really hard to manipulate into doing something they don't want to - and often will cut off their nose just to spite their face
even if it makes life more difficult they will do it because they said they would
life is black and white with no greys

and they put 100% into everything they do

that is why you need to put the bigger effort into YOU

bj

[frank_D]

bj,

I guess you know why I don't give up now, don't you?

And it's true, I DON'T trust people very easily and when I love someone I love them completely.

Tonite W decided to open herself up more, snuggled up to me when we watched TV, she even kissed me first. So I guess she is following through with her plan to 'stop being afraid'. Wonder how long it will last this time?

The good part is that I'm getting tired of waiting for her so she'll have to work at it to get me to respond any more.

we'll see.

[bj]

you know this is just a thought
but you could always say that you have been thinking a lot about what she said she wants to feel and you realise that you want to feel that too
maybe get the discussion going on how you can both get involved together on coming up with things that work and things that just don't
put a star chart on the fridge and give each other a star when things work
(yes I know kids stuff but it works for kid behaviours so why not adult one's)
come up with a list of what works at the side
cross out what doesn't just quiet make it

sometimes the simplest things are the best
the person who gets the most stars after a month gets 'what' I don't know that's up to you two

maybe just introducing a little competition might work

you have done so much and come through so much (both of you) this has to be easier than what has gone before it

bj

[grasshopper]

I am a Scorpio too...what does that say...geez.

I don't really like to just throw things up on the proverbial wall around here, but I will do it this time. Mind you, I am not totally sure I believe all this is the right thing to say, but it's what comes to me after reading the last several posts.

Frank, I have to say that there seems to be way too much "living for the sitch" and not enough plain living going on. I liked it when you said you were just going to do what you wanted and see what happened, no more second guessing, no more fear, no more constant analysis.
I think what W may want is to see you BE this new, self satisfying (lol) Frank within the context of your fledgling relationship. I think it's possible that she sees all the changes in strategy and tactics as just that, strategy and tactic, not real, honest expression of feelings.

I know it's hard to contemplate being "honest" enough with your feelings with her because of your own fear of rejection or getting hurt again but maybe you have to take that risk, knowing that deep down, even deeper than your love for her, is your love for YOU and that will be your safety net should things go sour again.

I said awhile back that I thought the main purpose of DB was to get us to the point where we HAD decisions to make in terms of what to do in our relationships. I now know that DB is for life and it's principals can help maintain, as well as fix a marriage but I still feel that there comes a time when we need to commit ourselves to the real work of learning how to live our lives without ALWAYS analyzing what each little thing we, or our W's do.

I know this seems in opposition to Amy and some others here, but I think it's something to think about. The way I see it is that at this point either your W is going to really come back to the M or she is not. She has openly expressed her desire to "work" on things and for you to "be" with her but I think your daily decision making process is getting in the way of doing just that sometimes. I see you trying to be one way one day, and then the next thinking that it didn't work so it's time to try something else. I don't know if you're actually BEING that way, but you talk a lot about it here so I suspect that no matter whether you are intending to send mixed messages to W or not, you are.

In the end Frank, all the advice in the world can't replace your inner voice and your feel for the situation. I think that the universals of these situations start to diminish as we get to the reconciliation because it then becomes more about learning things about your W you didn't know before, continuing to examine the OLD M for things that could have been done better and using your intuition to guide you when the specific circumstances of your sitch don't mesh with the universals we deal a lot in around here. What I mean is that you know your W better than we do, no matter how much we think we know her because we only know what you tell us, which is filtered by your emotions so is sure to be tainted. You know the WHOLE story and the WHOLE woman so in the end, it's you who has the best chance to make the right decision.

You are a strong, passionate man who I feel will someday find a way to convey that passion to the people who want and need it the most. You ARE a new man, capable of being honest, loving AND protecting yourself.

Like I said, sometimes I think the process gets in the way of progress.

Breathe, live, express, love, smile, relax and enjoy.

GH

[AmyC]

Frank,

I just want to thank you for all of your support on my thread yesterday.
I appreciate it a lot and I heard you loud and clear.

Also, thanks for putting into words what I have been unable to and that is the feeling I get sometimes that I can't do anything other than "stand still" because to do something other than show grace, stength and quote the Word means I let everyone here down. I don't want that burden. I couldn't say how I felt with all the "encouragement" to stand and wait and have patience......
I did know that everyone meant well and that means a lot to me.
Thank you for seeing what was happening and putting it into words.

Thanks for having my back.

You were like a bulldog defending my thread and I appreciate it.


Amy

[AmyC]

Check out these programs, Frank...

[frank_D]

Thank you for seeing what was happening and putting it into words.

Thanks for having my back.

You were like a bulldog defending my thread and I appreciate it.

Growl! Bite! Snap!

Sometimes, people I know get a view of me that I can solve any problem, that my life is always under control. I am the 'great Frank', builder of technologies, businessman extraordinaire. Someone THEY can go to when THEY need help. They rarely think that maybe I MIGHT have problems that I have no control over, or people that I have to 'let go of'.

That's part of the reason I withdrew from the world for a while. I had nothing left to give, but others were setting the same high expectations of me. Too much demand for perfection.

I could see that going on with your thread. Sometimes it takes one to know one. Especially someone who is grounded. I'm very grounded right now and I see people for who they really are, and where they are really at.

I never expect you to be perfect, nor do I expect you to carry me as a burden. I ONLY expect you to be honest and pragmatic with me. And be impeccable with your word.

Thanks for all you do for me. I'm glad I can do for you in return. That's a real friend.

[BeingMe]

What's the saying? One cannot be all things to all people. I like to add, "you can only be that to yourself". Being true to yourself doesn't mean being selfish, but it does mean being aware when you are not being your authentic self and showing your honest (or, as close as possible) persona to the world.

But, sometimes we fail ourselves, and that means reassessing, taking stock, questioning your inner self, etc.
We are all a masterpiece in progress.