W31, OM20, part II

[PositivelyListening]

Hi RB,

I think you are in an amazing inquiry and discovery of yourself, and I am thrilled for you. I think it is a beautiful and maturing and growing and exciting place to be, where you realize that you want your marriage and relationship at some point, but that you want to be healthy and generating health in your life as a standard.

I will be looking forward to reading about your visit with your mother. I see your separation from her over these past six years as really healthy differentiation for you. I am sure that some feelings will come up from your visit. But it also seems you are ready to face your past with new eyes.

I must admit that I am hopeful that my H will be sparked from some of his darker moments of his current journey, to seek his truth and discover himself at another level the way you are right now. It would be the awakening which the MLC he is experiencing could bring. My H has sexual abuse in his childhood, which brings its own kind of secret demons, and trust issues. It will be almost impossible for us to come together as a couple if he does not have this kind of dawning. Of course, I am open to that kind of miracle and I pray for both of us to grow in our understanding, our patience, and our commitment so that our marriage can continue. Meanwhile, you are an inspiration, and your wife is very fortunate that she has you, learning and growing, and also seeking a committed future together with her at some point that you are actively working towards.

I'll be looking for more of your road trip adventure to unfold. You are on an important personal journey. My thoughts are with you.

[RBinBR]

Well, I get back in town from my trip and find out that OM is back. He's been back at the apartment for several days, it seems. I guess "he won't listen to me anymore" meant that he was coming back here no matter what.

Well, we'll see how long this lasts -- I'm betting on no more than two weeks. I really think this is the last go-round for W. I don't think her conscience can take it.

FIL called me and told me that W was going to take D4 to meet OM at the mall. MIL pitched a fit and told W that she was doing an evil thing, etc. W then reportedly took D4 in the car but changed her mind a block later and brought her back. She is obviously very troubled right now.

I'm obviously a little bit disappointed, as I had hoped that she would use the time while I was away to completely break it off with OM (instead of welcoming him back). Disappointed ... but not upset, however. I was prepared for this and I'm excited about my trip next week to Disney with D4.

I've actually had a great time this week. I went camping and hiking in Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Wednesday, I set up my tent at Elkmont campground inside the park, right next to the Little River ... an absolutely amazing place to camp. I started on a planned 5 mile hike from there, but I somehow couldn't shake the desire to hike all the way up to the Appalachian Trail. I just knew that I wanted to go all the way up, so I did. That hike up and back down was ultimately 23.4 miles, with an elevation gain of 3550 feet. It consumed about 11 hours, with the last three of them done in the dark with a flashlight. If I tell you that I was exhausted and sore when I reached the top, you can only imagine the pain I was in when I reached the bottom over 11 miles later. I did it, however, and overcoming the pain to complete the challenge felt awesome ... not to mention that the scenery was jaw-droppingly beautiful. This was my first time in the Smokies, but definitely not my last. Amazingly, I was somehow able to walk the next day (with difficulty, however), and I did the short hike to Laurel Falls. I spent the rest of the day exploring the Cades Cove area with all its history and saw many deer and wild turkeys as well.

On Tuesday, I did try to go visit my mother on my way to Tennessee, but she wasn't home. I'm actually not as concerned with talking to her anymore. The important thing isn't so much that I confront her about my upbringing ... it's that I confront myself and use the knowledge I've gained to change.

Anyway, I plan to stay pretty dark with W this week, leading into the trip next week.

I'll talk to y'all later, and I'll try to catch up on some of your threads.

[RBinBR]

Well, I saw W today at MIL's B-day party. W didn't know I was back and was surprised to see me there. There were lots of awkward pauses in conversation. She got a sad look on her face as I told her about my trip to the Smokies. She's never been but has always wanted to go, and I think she was sad that she couldn't have shared that experience with me.

Eventually, I kind of took her aside and kindly let her know that I wasn't angry with her and I'll be there for her when she's truly ready to end it with OM (though not for anymore halfway attempts to try). I actually thought that she'd appreciate my saying this, but she said "I don't want to talk about that now" and stormed out in front of everyone ... odd.

May 1 and the Disney trip with D4 can't come soon enough. It was so wonderful to spend the day with her today -- she was so overjoyed to see me and spend time with me.

I got my scores back from my teacher certification exams. I scored in the top 1% on my subject exam (middle school math), so that's exciting and should help me get some more choices in where I teach, both next fall and long term.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi RB,

It is good to hear you doing so well. Your trip sounded wonderful, and just right.

I was thinking about your wife's reaction to your short chat:

Eventually, I kind of took her aside and kindly let her know that I wasn't angry with her and I'll be there for her when she's truly ready to end it with OM (though not for anymore halfway attempts to try). I actually thought that she'd appreciate my saying this, but she said "I don't want to talk about that now" and stormed out in front of everyone ... odd.

I think your wife remains very confused, and probably any R talk initiated by you feels like pressure. Perhaps even the idea that you are "waiting" for her feels like pressure. She is in a pressure cooker at her apartment too with OM. Just know inside that you will be patient. But I would suggest ignoring everything related to OM and definitely no R talk until your wife initiates with you. She just seems overcome with guilt, has many others in her life telling her what to do (such as mother re: mall trip) and even though everyone thinks they have her best interests at heart, what's really in your wife's best interest is for her to find herself without influence from others.
So keep doing what you are doing for yourself, and keep her wishing she was with you. Eventually if the strength comes from inside of her to choose you and your M once and for all, that will be what you want. It could be she has seen you as the strong one, and herself as the confused/messed up one for so long that she can't bear it. Hopefully she will find herself if you remain lovingly detached.

I look forward to hearing your further adventures in Disneyworld with your D. There is nothing more special than creating that kind of time with your little one. My D is already 24 and I can't believe how fast it went.

[RBinBR]

Thanks, PL. You are definitely right that she felt pressured. Of course, that was not my intention.

Normally, I would have been very angry with her for letting me and everyone else down after all that we had done for her in the previous two weeks to try to help her. I thought you could cut the tension at the table with a knife, and I felt sure that she was nervously waiting for me to explode at her or at least do some passive aggressive thing to her. (I did think about a number of such things this time, like tearing up her wedding dress or giving it to goodwill, since that day was all a lie .. you get my drift.) Anyway, I was trying to be nice and let her know that I wasn't angry, which is a change from the old me.

BTW, she did call me yesterday and apologize for storming out. That was the extent of our conversation, since she woke me up with the call and didn't want to talk more as groggy as I was.

She just seems overcome with guilt, has many others in her life telling her what to do (such as mother re: mall trip) and even though everyone thinks they have her best interests at heart, what's really in your wife's best interest is for her to find herself without influence from others.

Right, and I told MIL that, but MIL has a different attitude when it comes to protecting her only granddaughter.

We'll see what happens this week before the Disney trip.

[grasshopper]

RB,

You are doing fine. I know the feeling of trying to drop the old passive/aggressive thing, only to have it backfire. I have tired this a few times with my W and she hardly ever takes it the way I mean it. I can't be specific, but suffice to say that it's almost as important to accept their response as uncontrollable as it is to be honest. I think I, and maybe you, in the past would get too wrapped up in what they may do or think if we do or say some certain thing. As OT says, we tried to manage their emotions. We tried to in effect, control them.

I think what you did was not in the spirit of DB, what with the no R talk rule and all, but sometimes you need to take risks and make your own decisions, then live with them. You did that. You did what you thought was best at the time and judging from your post afterwards, you owned your decision. It seems like she realized you were just trying to be honest and help and so in the end, it may have worked out fine.

Have a great time here in O-town!

GH

[RBinBR]

Thanks, GH. The last couple of weeks gave me such a big dose of detachment that I'm really not at all concerned about my sitch or about W's reactions. I have changed dramatically since her revelation of the A last October, and I'm finally to the point I'm getting comfortable without her. These past couple of weeks have been key in that process.

Now, for some, this may be too much information, but I'm passing it along because it might be useful to someone else. Those of you who have followed my sitch know that I had a problem with porn prior to W's leaving, and that I have since defeated that sin. Well, part of my way for defeating it was to focus all my sexual desires on my W and make her the complete object of my attraction. Needless to say, that didn't help with my detachment from her. About a week ago, I decided to completely remove sexual fantasy from my life, including fantasies of my W. That one decision has done more to help me detach than anything I have previously done.

[PositivelyListening]

Hi RB,

Thanks for the comments on the sexual fantasy issues you have struggled with. I find it interesting because I have come from such an opposite place. I had just turned sex off, particularly since H had withdrawn. So I am now trying to wake myself back up. Most of my sexual fantasies have been centered on my H, and that has helped me feel perky and alive and flirtatious around him again, helped to wake up an aspect of my love for him. But recently a friend gave me some books (I guess they are sexual/romantic fantasy books for women) which is a new genre for me as I am studying for my PhD and most of my reading is not as fun as this stuff. As of course I don't want to be so wrapped up in my H that I can't imagine a life without him being with me. I have to leave room for other choices, even though my commitment is to our M and to him. So the swashbuckling rogue characters from another century are useful to me right now and relatively helpful rather than harmful in keeping me in touch with an important aspect of myself. So it seems the key in this arena, as with all things, is balance. So that we can be our best selves, and not be out of balance and owned or driven by something. How to be alert and awake and alive and responsive and creative, without being demanding or desperate or overly intense or unhealthy or controlling. Unconditional love, for ourselves as well as others. Life work.

[RBinBR]

Update: saw W tonight for the first significant amount of time in weeks. She, D4, and I played a board game and horsed around a little. W seemed to have a good time and said "Y'all are so sweet," including me in that. It was kinda nice to have a little fun and just enjoy each other's company.

This is the last we'll see of W until we get back from Disneyworld next Saturday, since she's going out of town with OM tomorrow for the weekend. W is definitely going to miss going on the trip, but she said earlier this week that work would keep her from going, no matter what (whether I wanted her to go and whether she felt like it).

W was at the house today for 2 hours, but spent an hour of that on the phone with a customer (typical). So, W spent a total of about 2 1/2 hours this week with D4, which has been about average for her over the last three months. I've really sensed that D is starting to build some resentment. When W called for her on Wednesday night, she talked for only a second before handing the phone to my SIL, who was over here for a while (in fact, D now sees much more of SIL and MIL than she does of her own mother). I've seen many books and articles on spouses reconciling, but I have to wonder about what the long-term effects of this abandonment are going to be on D. She knows that the reason that Mommy doesn't live at the house anymore is that she doesn't want to live with Daddy.

Anyway, we'll see if anything happens while D and I are at WDW. As I said earlier, it really doesn't matter to me so much anymore. Whatever happens, happens.

[SuitedUp]

"Whatever happens, happens. "

I've been following your sitch for a while and you sure have been through the wringer. If you can successfully embrace and sustain the attitude I quoted above, you will do well. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

You are a great person and father. Your W is...well..to put it mildly..an idiot, but she can't see that at the moment.

You know FOR SURE, W and OM won't last. That's a given. Many people here on this forum don't have the benefit of that information, you do.

One other thing and this is my view only. At the time your W kicked out OM and about the time you were thinking about the 6 week deal thing, man you were pushing way too hard. Again, this is just my opinion. It sounded to me like you were combining control, guilt and pressure under the guise of being a friend. I know it's all well and good saying this with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight but take a moment to re-read your postings and take careful note of how you were trying to manipulate the situation.

By saying this and by challenging you to look a little deeper within yourself, I am hoping that the outcome of this is that you are able to embrace and engender the mantra that you have set for yourself....Whatever happens, happens.

Your postings are all too focused on what your W is up to, where she is staying, what she is doing etc, etc, etc. I am so glad that you are taking a well earned vacation but I suspect that even though you will having a great time with your D, there will be times when your thoughts turn to less pleasant matters.

My advice to you is when you find your mind wandering, shutting the thoughts out is fruitless, particulary when such hurtful deeds have been commited. So rather than allowing your thoughts to focus on the history (which is always a huge downer), force yourself, not to block the thought but to change them to focus on possible future events. Give yourself permission to consider future discussions with your W, give yourself permission to consider a future without her, give yourself permission to consider any dream that you want to dream.

It is in my experience that the worst thoughts are the one's where you try to replay the past in your mind in a seemingly fruitless task of finding out what went wrong. It's a no win situation as well as f*ucking with your PMA. Thoughts of the future have enabled me to process the sadness of what could have been way better because honestly, your future starts right now. The past is irrelevant now.

Your W is sure one mixed fruit cookie. She know's what she wants but can't bring herself to focus on it. That is so sad that a human being's brain can be so scrambled and what they say that it's got nothing to do with you, is ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

You have your daughter. Maybe it's time, if you can do it, to let your W completely go and let God take care of it as He has always done.

Have a great time away.

Suit

P.S. I so totally agree with your advice not to make up sexual fantasies that include your W. I used to do this and ended up believing she was an angel and I was the villan. Since I stopped making up fantasies, I believe the opposite of that to be true but those fantasies have to stop. It's all part of letting go.