Quote: Luckily I'm eather a big dork or just seem to ignore any signs of interest. Good thing I'm not a woman...it's probably akin to a guy being a rockstar.
It's kind of funny but right after I made that post, I went out to run some errands and made more of a point of noticing the kind of attention I do receive (Bear in mind I am just a reasonably attractive woman who is 41) So, in the course of running about an hour of errands the following occurred. One guy with whom I interact on a regular basis approached me with a beaming smile and said "So, how's J today?" (we have a running joke between us about my name)and started a convo. Another guy held open the door for me at the post office and then offered to carry my packages to my car for me. A third guy started talking to me at the deli counter at the grocery store along the lines of "I shop here a lot. Do you shop here often?". Because I am married and because even when I was single my HD made me have to be even more initially resistant than most women, I automatically put up my shield of disinterest. I was pointedly just friendly with my friend, I politely declined the offer of assistance with my packages and I actually had to be kind of coldly rude to the guy at the deli counter. When I was feeling actively angry at my H about the situation, there was just a thin moral line that was keeping me from responding more positively to signs of interest from other men. Also, with the advent of internet dating, according to my single HD sister "It's a fact that any woman who wants to get laid can get laid any time and any way that she wants. All she has to do is decide which guy is hottest.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
When I was feeling actively angry at my H about the situation, there was just a thin moral line that was keeping me from responding more positively to signs of interest from other men.
This point stirred something in me because, for me, I never thought about cheating. It was something that happened to other people. Immoral people who don't understand the meaning of vows....I always thought 'geez, if you're gonna cheat, just get divorced'. And then I cheated. I feel like if I would not have been so dissmissive and judgmental of others, maybe I could have thought through some of those issues before I put myself in the fire, wearing the scarlet leter. I thought I was better than people who cheated. Well, I wasn't.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Thanks to all who replied to my post, I appreciate it.
Boundary setting is about YOUR behavior. It is not about making the other person do something. It is not about threatening them with dire consequences to THEM unless they do what you want. It can in fact work that way, but that is not the primary intent. It is sometimes a side effect.
Lil, what you are saying here really makes sense. I would fight tooth and nail if someone told me outright that I try to control H....but I see in fact that I do try to control how H *treats me*. I am confused on what boundaries are and I try to figure out ways to basically *make* him be nicer to me. Doesn't work, does it? Thanks for helping me to understand this.
You can request something, and then if he doesn't do it, you can leave, do it some other way, do it yourself, leave it undone. YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM DO ANYTHING.
Intellectually, I understand this. So, what do people mean when they ask 'why do you put up with it?' What are you gonna do about it? Like right now for instance. H is ignoring me. I'd love to 'not put up with it' to show him that 'he can't treat me this way'. But how?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: Intellectually, I understand this. So, what do people mean when they ask 'why do you put up with it?' What are you gonna do about it? Like right now for instance. H is ignoring me. I'd love to 'not put up with it' to show him that 'he can't treat me this way'. But how?
I have to tell you that I am far from really "getting" this whole idea of boundaries myself but IMO it is more a matter of how you emotionally react to a situation or behavior from your spouse rather than anything you do or say. For instance, in my sich I used to put up with too much disrespectful behavior from my H. I let this kind of behavior hurt me or make me feel angry so I would react pathetically or defensively. Now I regard disrespectful behavior from my H in the same way I would regard him if he walked around with snot on his face. It's rather distasteful and shows a lack of awareness on his part but it has very little to do with me unless I choose to stare at it. Therefore, I would suggest that you regard/react toward your H's "ignoring you" in the same way you would sensibly regard/react towards a child who was sulking. It is up to him to choose to either actively engage in a pleasant relationship with you or communicate his needs or negative feelings in an adult manner. Unfortunately, I can not tell you how long he may decide to keep sulking. It seems like some spouses can do it for years. So, if he doesn't choose to stop sulking you may have to decide whether you want to leave.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
"This point stirred something in me because, for me, I never thought about cheating. It was something that happened to other people. Immoral people who don't understand the meaning of vows....I always thought 'geez, if you're gonna cheat, just get divorced'. And then I cheated. I feel like if I would not have been so dissmissive and judgmental of others, maybe I could have thought through some of those issues before I put myself in the fire, wearing the scarlet leter. I thought I was better than people who cheated. Well, I wasn't."
I could have written that exact paragraph word for word Heather. It is SOOO true. I definitely have a new appreciation for this thing we call marriage, and how difficult it truly is. This wiping away of my silly notions about the evils of cheaters has given me more tolerance in other areas of my life as well. Interesting how even a lemon like an EA can be turned into lemonade.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I have to tell you that I am far from really "getting" this whole idea of boundaries myself but IMO it is more a matter of how you emotionally react to a situation or behavior from your spouse rather than anything you do or say.
This is why the boundary concept eludes you. It is NOT about how you react. It is about how you feel about yourself. You are whole, complete, self confident in yourself, without any need for confirmation or validation from anyone else. The CENTRAL tenant to this is your SELF INTEGRITY. If you know there is something about you that is wrong, say jealousy, then by being true to yourself (for all you religious readers out there) you will fix that flaw. And in so doing, you know that you are a good person, no matter what your spouse says. If he says you are not, it does not bother you because you KNOW you are. You know this because you are TRUE TO YOURSELF.
Just acting in the proper manner does not mean you have believe in how you are acting. In fact, acting contrary to your belief (i.e., not being true to yourself) means you are choosing this particular behavior because you think it is what someone else wants to see. So what happens if they decide they want to see something different. Always chasing their whims makes you a puppet on a string. What really triggers the anger is the fact that you have done this to yourself. The self blame can be so strong that some people refuse to accept their own responsibility. So they blame the other person for changing whims, for “making” them do this or that. The fact is no one “made” you do anything. You choose to do as you wish. You choose to be the puppet.
This is what Corri is trying to tell everyone. Sometimes it is hard to understand the message, so I hope this helps.
Thanks for plowing through my long post, heather. Sometime, you might want to check out the boundary links that cobra so nicely posted (thanks, c!).
Here is indeed where the rubber meets the road: two people who live together should (there's the s-word!) treat each other with civility, caring, and kindness EVEN IF NO ONE MAKES THEM DO IT!
So when you stop trying to make your partner be a certain way and they continue to treat you like sh!t, and when you continually make simple requests of them ("Honey, could you take the kids tomorrow morning-- I just need 30 more minutes of sleep), and they ridicule you, turn you down rudely, ignore you-- well then you need to decide if you want to go on living with a person like that.
We can't spend every waking minute of our day trying to get our partner to notice us and treat us with kindness and courtesy. We shouldn't need to. Kindness, courtesy, and making each other's life easier, say, 91.4% of the time SHOULD be a given.
But if a person treats you like crap a lot of the time, and the only way you can get them to be civil is to threaten bodily harm or the withdrawal of something they want-- no one should have to live that way.
What the boundary setting thing does is clear out the dust, smoke, flying debris so you can see where the commotion is truly coming from.
With two grown-up people who love each other and are capable of being civil, the boundaries should be lightly drawn chalk lines on the ground, not coils of razor wire. If they NEED to be the latter, something's wrong with the Big Picture.
