Cobra, I agree with basically everything you've written, but I just want to comment on a couple of things. You said
Quote:

The hard choice is to force the spouse into counseling any way possible, to set consequences if they don’t go.

My bf and I have been to two therapists as a couple; I've been to four others on my own since I met him; and he's currently seeing a therapist every week. All of these have been good counselors. And bf and I are both willing to work... but it's like the movies about an alcoholic or addict. The movie ends on the triumphant note where the guy (or gal) finally admits they have a problem and checks into rehab or goes to their first AA meeting... tears all around, cue the credits, lights up. However, this is where the work really begins. Now the addict has to face the rest of their life without their substance of choice. Remember also that GEL and her H were in counseling for two years and he was lying the whole time.

Counseling is good. Counseling is necessary. Especially if both people go, but it is also good if only one person goes. Counseling is the beginning of the journey, not the end. (I know you weren't saying that, just wanted to emphasize.) Also once you go, you have to keep going. So you get your spouse to go, they go a couple of times and say "it isn't working," and quit. Counseling is good, and NECESSARY, but not the Holy Grail.

Which brings me to my next point: even if one person goes, it can upset the apple cart enough to force a change in the R. (This directed to choc's point, and believe me, guy, I do get your point... even the "successes" on the board sound more like settling, getting used to doing with less, or else they were accomplished practically with bloodshed ). But I do believe that when one person really gets their sh*t together, it will totally change the dynamics of the R for good or for ill... but ultimately for CHANGE. When one person truly changes, the R has to change, one way or another. That's the crucible that Schnarch speaks of... getting out of your comfort zone and turning up the heat.

Ultimately, getting okay with the R may mean settling for less or getting out.